Why doesn’t God communicate directly to everyone?

[Trailblazer]

I am not trying to sell anything. I just respond to posts. I have a right to believe what I do, just like anyone else has a right to believe what they do or to disbelieve what they do.

When and if you write in the hopes of winning converts, then that's a 'sell'.
Telling that Bahauallah is the only present manifestation of God is a bit pushy....

I certainly am not hoping to win converts. Baha’u’llah wrote that the faith of no man can be conditioned by anyone except himself. I would not want anyone to become a Baha’i unless they made their own choice after doing their own investigation.

Telling people that Baha’u’llah is the only “current” Manifestation of God is the truth as far as I am concerned. Why would I not tell the truth about what I believe? Don’t Christians tell the truth about who they believe Jesus was? Why the double standard for Baha’is?

Do you see me complaining about any replies I get? Do you see me condemning anyone?

So when you call critics LIARS....... that's just a term of endearment?
A lot that I hear from Bahais is very dodgy though...... needs putting right.

I never called anybody on this forum a liar. I only said that some people tell lies about the Baha’i Faith, like on the internet and in books.

However, I will correct false information about my religion because that is what Baha'u'llah enjoined me to do.
...... and some out there will be correcting any Bahai false claims and/or deceptions as well......

Go right ahead. I cannot stop you because this is a public forum, but you can expect that I will be disagree and post what I consider is the correct information.

I read your quote from Bahauallah......... a terrifying prophesy about how future critics would be treated in a Bahai World.......... you don't see it, maybe because you're blind to it, but others here might see it. Let's have a look.....
..................Those men, however, who, in this Day, have been led to assail, in their inflammatory writings, the tenets of the Cause of God, are to be treated differently. It is incumbent upon all men, each according to his ability, to refute the arguments of those that have attacked the Faith of God. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the All-Powerful, the Almighty.” ..........

How you are being treated? Can’t you even SEE that it is you who attack the Baha’i Faith so you are the critics, the instigators? We just mind our own business and then people attack us for no good reason at all... They twist the Writings to make us look like we have motives we do not have. But once you are convinced of something there is no changing that and I don’t care to change anyone. I will however defend my religion, just as a Christian would defend their religion.

Critics Treated differently? Wow! A Bahai World might make George Orwell's ideas look like fun-at-the-fair.

You completely misconstrued that passage. All it means is that we are loving and sympathetic to those who disagree with us and we might not even bother to say anything to them. However, when people attack our faith we have to refute their arguments and defend our Faith from those attacks, and we do that in writing or in speech, without recourse to violence as other religions have done. Really dangerous Baha'is...

"Warn, O Salmán, the beloved of the one true God, not to view with too critical an eye the sayings and writings of men. Let them rather approach such sayings and writings in a spirit of open-mindedness and loving sympathy. Those men, however, who, in this Day, have been led to assail, in their inflammatory writings, the tenets of the Cause of God, are to be treated differently. It is incumbent upon all men, each according to his ability, to refute the arguments of those that have attacked the Faith of God. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the All-Powerful, the Almighty. He that wisheth to promote the Cause of the one true God, let him promote it through his pen and tongue, rather than have recourse to sword or violence. We have, on a previous occasion, revealed this injunction, and We now confirm it, if ye be of them that comprehend. By the righteousness of Him Who, in this Day, crieth within the inmost heart of all created things: “God, there is none other God besides Me!” Gleanings, pp. 329-330

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi..........
The first Bahai Prophet wrote about keeping certain cities just for Bahais and turning everybody else out of them. He also mentioned that Bahais should turn non-believers out of their homes if those Bahais wanted same for themselves ...... Mid Eastern folks who can translate these writings can tell of them today, thanks to jolly old IT.

And I do wonder if, in a Bahai Word, these same holy writings might not be taken from the archives for 'activation'?

Would you choose the streets or the woods for your home?

If you are going to post these accusations, you are obligated to provide evidence. What is your evidence? If you cannot produce it, I will just have to assume you made this all up. Have you read something I have not read? Do you know Persian or Arabic or do you just believe what you hear from the detractors?

You are as transparent as glass right after the window washer has left. You do what all those who attack the Bahai Faith do... You do what the Covenant-breakers did... You say things in hopes that you will turn people away from the Baha'i Faith.

If you have proof fine, then please produce it.

 

[oldbadger]

Don’t Christians tell the truth about who they believe Jesus was? Why the double standard for Baha’is?

Christians disagree with each other........ which are telling the truth?
Anyway, it's no good pointing to Christians to accuse me of double standards......... many Bahais don't talk about belief, they talk about certitude, quite different.

I never called anybody on this forum a liar. I only said that some people tell lies about the Baha’i Faith, like on the internet and in books.

We're on the internet!
So why bring it, about all these liars, again and again? Why not tell us some of their lies for examples?
Just address the points raised, if you can.

Go right ahead. I cannot stop you because this is a public forum, .......

....... in a Bahai World would it be different? What would you do then?

Can’t you even SEE that it is you who attack the Baha’i Faith so you are the critics, the instigators?

Years of seeking and delving surely have made me a critic...... and honest one at that.

You completely misconstrued that passage. All it means is .............

And now you want to tell me what Bahai writings mean!!!

 

[oldbadger]

If you are going to post these accusations, you are obligated to provide evidence. What is your evidence?

No problem! I will post it late this evening (in GMT) ....... And we've covered this here before on RF threads!
But please do remember them or you'll be challenging the next critic, again and again..... on and on....!

Do you know Persian or Arabic or do you just believe what you hear from the detractors?

Do you know Persian and Arabic? ........or do you just believe what you hear from the supporters?

You are as transparent as glass right after the window washer has left. You do what all those who attack the Bahai Faith do... You do what the Covenant-breakers did... You say things in hopes that you will turn people away from the Baha'i Faith.

Are you calling me a liar? After all, you claim not to do that here.

 

[Trailblazer]

No problem! I will post it late this evening (in GMT) ....... And we've covered this here before on RF threads!
But please do remember them or you'll be challenging the next critic, again and again..... on and on....!

And I will be back with what I find out from Baha’is on other forums who know Persian and Arabic and who know the history of the Baha’i Faith.

Do you know Persian and Arabic? ........ or do you just believe what you hear from the supporters?

I believe what has been translated into English by the authorized interpreters of the Bahai Faith... There is no reason not to believe them...

I asked: Do you know Persian and Arabic? ........ or do you just believe what you hear from the detractors? What, you could not answer that? If you do not know those languages I guess you are taking someone elses word for what those Writings say.

Are you calling me a liar? After all, you claim not to do that here.

I did not call you a liar. I just observed what I see you doing. You even said that you felt it necessary to expose the Faith for what it is. So all I am doing is reporting back what you already said.

 

[oldbadger]

I believe what has been translated into English by the authorized interpreters of the Bahai Faith... There is no reason not to believe them...

So all translators but Bahais are cheats?
OMG....

Here is your proof, of all that I posted to another member, and challenged by you. I promised an answer tonight, but you may have it now at 11.05hrs gmt.

The Bab wrote about turning non-babis out of five Persian cities, to reside within themselves.

The Bab wrote that Babis could turn non-babis out of their homes.

Bábism - Wikipedia

Some of the new laws included changing the direction of the Qibla to the Báb's house in Shiraz, Iran and changing the calendar to a solar calendar of nineteen months and nineteen days (which became the basis of the Bahá'í calendar) and prescribing the last month as a month of fasting.[20]
The Báb also created a large number of rituals and rites which remained largely unpracticed.[21] Some of these rituals include the carrying of arms only in times of necessity, the obligatory sitting on chairs, the advocating of the cleanliness displayed by Christians, the non-cruel treatment of animals, the prohibition of beating children severely, the recommendation of the printing of books, even scripture and the prohibition on the study of logic or dead languages.[21] While some statements in the Bayan show tolerance, there are other very harsh regulations in regards to relations with non-believers. For example, non-believers are forbidden to live in five central Iranian provinces, the holy places of previous religions are to be demolished, all non-Bábí books should be destroyed, believers are not to marry or sit in the company of non-believers, and the property of non-believers can be taken from them.[21] Some further ritual include elaborate regulations regarding pilgrimage, fasting, the manufacture of rings, the use of perfume, and the washing and disposal of the dead.[21]


More on this:-

The Sūrat al-mulk of the Qayyum al-asma',
OF THE BĀB.
Surah 98. Oh warriors of the Truth, when you stand in lines in a war against unbelievers, do not fear their great numbers, because We have written fear on their hearts. Kill each and every of them and do not let one of them remain on earth."

Surah 97 that means: Oh Believers! Take and occupy every city and its inhabitants for God's religion and do not accept from them a money in exchange ..."

 

[PureX]

Here is my take on the 'messenger' thing.

I have, in the course of my life, heard other humans say things that significantly changed my life for the better. I have heard them offer theories of truth that I found to be true, and to be of great value to me and through me to those I interact with. And I am quite happy to presume that these "messages" were the result of a Divine Spirit that exists within all humans, and that can heal us and save us from ourselves, if we are willing to allow it to act (speak) through us, to ourselves and to others.

I do not accept the idea that God has chosen specific messengers to deliver specific messages to all humanity. I'm not a God and even I am smart enough to know that that would be an invitation to disaster, because it opens the door to all manner of misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and outright abuse. To give ANY human exclusive claim on the will of God is to give that human a presumption of authority that he/she does not deserve and should never have, over others.

So I accept the 'divine message theory', but I whole-heartedly reject the 'special messenger theory'. And both experience and reason back me up on this.

 

[ChristineM]

Who said anything about evidence?
You sure are fixated on evidence.

You did, several times

Yes am fixated on evidence when people misrepresent evidence just to bolster their personal belief

Are you now withdrawing your claim that you have evidence your prophet was a messenger of god but you believe he was a messenger of god?

 

[QuestioningMind]

.This is a false conclusion based on a false assumption: that having no verifying evidence is verifying evidence. It's not
Those are a joke. No one actually believes any of it.
No, we could just go with an unacknowledged and unexamined bias. But it seems to me that even that would have to be the result of some sort of character impulse.

This is a false conclusion based on a false assumption: that having no verifying evidence is verifying evidence. It's not

I'm not claiming that having no verifying evidence for god is evidence that god does NOT exist. Simply that having no verifying evidence means I have no reason to believe that god IS.

Those are a joke. No one actually believes any of it.

You give some people far too much credit. If people are gullible enough to believe in Scientology, they're gullible enough to believe in anything.

No, we could just go with an unacknowledged and unexamined bias. But it seems to me that even that would have to be the result of some sort of character impulse

What you call an unexamined bias, I call a thoroughly examined standard. In MY opinion fantastical claims require verifiable evidence before I can believe that they are true. You on the other hand seem to think that if you can't prove that something doesn't exist that your required to pretend as if it does. How silly.

 

[CG Didymus]

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Luke was describing what happened to Jesus when God communicated to Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
God does not speak in an audible Voice that people can hear. The Manifestations of God can hear from God but we cannot understand how they hear it or what it sounds like to Them...

“And whenever I chose to hold my peace and be still, lo, the voice of the Holy Ghost, standing on my right hand, aroused me, and the Supreme Spirit appeared before my face, and Gabriel overshadowed me, and the Spirit of Glory stirred within my bosom, bidding me arise and break my silence. If your hearing be purged and your ears be attentive, ye will assuredly perceive that every limb of my body, nay all the atoms of my being, proclaim and bear witness to this call: “God, besides Whom is none other God, and He, Whose beauty is now manifest, is the reflection of His glory unto all that are in heaven and on earth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 103-104

2nd Peter 1:16-18 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"18 and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

So again we have the Baha'i position contradicting the Christian NT position. Peter says he heard the voice. I really, really doubt it, but I do believe that is what the NT says. And Christians are justified in believing that is what happened. The problem for Baha'is is how to explain it away without denying the Bible as the "Word of God". So, can you?

 

[CG Didymus]

That is a valid point. I am not proficient in the Bible, let alone the Old Testament, so I do not know what these Prophets claimed. As far as the "official" Bahai position, I do not know if there is one. All I know is the chapter from Some Answered Questions: 43: THE TWO CLASSES OF PROPHETS

In that chapter, it does not say that the Prophets in the Old Testament could not have received some kind of communication from God but rather that they did not receive a full revelation from God, as did the independent Prophets (the Manifestations of God) and they did this not establish a new religion.

"The other Prophets are followers and promoters, for they are branches and not independent; they receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit by the light of the Guidance of the universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself, but receives its light from the sun......
With regard to the second sort of Prophets who are followers, these also promote the Law of God, make known the Religion of God, and proclaim His word. Of themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets." Some Answered Questions, pp. 164-165

Well, the easiest explanation for me is that the writers of the Bible were telling stories... stories of legend and myth. Stories about their God and how he dealt with them. Obviously, there are problems for them that take it as the absolute, literal Word of God. I can see why some people think it is all make believe and made up by the religious leaders to keep the people in line. But the hardest position to believe for me is the Baha'i explanation... that it is somehow God's Word, but has errors and traditions that got mixed in. Plus, that many of the stories were meant to be taken symbolically, but the people mistakenly took them literal.

 

[CG Didymus]

You doubt that God spoke to Jesus through the Holy Spirit, or you doubt that God spoke with an audible voice?
Do Christians believe that God spoke to Jesus audibly as opposed to telepathically?

I believe that many Christians believe that the Holy Spirit dwells within them and speaks to their hearts. And, I believe that most Christians think that God can and did speak with an audible voice. I also believe that there is a good chance that many of the events like walking on water, dead people coming out of the graves and audible voices from heaven didn't happen, but were made up to embellish the story about Jesus. 'Cause without those things, how could the Christians impress the people they were trying to convert? Those people had god/men, resurrections, and virgin birth stories of their own. How do you compete with that unless your God/man is somehow greater and more powerful?

 

[CG Didymus]

You fail to understand that I have as much evidence for being a messenger as your guy does. Why believe him and not me?


A business owner who never shows up at work will lose that business.


Why should I recognize him? I know the state of things post 19th century and, like Jesus, there wasn't much done. Humanity started improving things on their own. No divine messenger has ever succeeded in making a "heaven on earth", so to speak.

I believe in Jesus when he said I had to judge a tree by its fruit. The problem arose when I judged HIS tree.


My father had court-appointed visitation rights. Eventually, it got to the point where he wanted to send his new wife's son to come get us and he would work on the weekends and we were essentially just there for unpaid labor. Sorry that I'm not going to agree that dumping one's children off on other children is the same thing as parenting.


They are rejected usually because they don't stand up to scrutiny. That's not our fault.

I believe that a messenger should welcome having things analyzed scientifically and anything that doesn't pass muster should be thrown out. Any messenger ... ANY ... MESSENGER ... who claims that he or she or they must be recognized or followed should be automatically under suspicion because life doesn't revolve around them.

I mean, I amuse myself with the thought that you don't follow ME, but then again, I wouldn't want you to, because my message IS "don't trust random people and look it up for yourself." I can't really find a flaw in that message, can you?


He lived in the 19th century, so I doubt you witnessed it personally.


You can't choose a fish to climb a tree. It has to be born with the capacity for it. So, yes, they have to have the right parts for it, which makes it less a "choosing" than a "well, it works".


They are just people. Talented people, at most, but still people. Remember that (and I know you claim not to believe the bible) in Genesis, like in other global myths, godhood could be attained through eating magic things. The standard for godhood is pretty low.


And that's why people should join his religion? God will look down on them if they don't?


Both sides are being lazy. That doesn't absolve God.


Delegating a messenger instead of doing Your job Yourself every several centuries is NOT doing Your job. God may be eternal but WE aren't, so things that need fixing need fixing NOW.


If He doesn't care about everyone then He shouldn't get irritable when others decide they got tired of waiting for a no-show.

I mean, I don't know how it is everywhere, but usually after three absences, you can count yourself fired without a doctor's excuse or something like that.


But they aren't THE MESSENGER. THE MESSENGER had ONE job....


So, you don't, then.

Like people who read the bible, you are a slave to what others tell you it says.


Sacrifice your belief in your guy and go follow a new messenger. There are lots of them. Pick one (or many). I don't care.


So let's say I hire a cashier who can't count money. Per YOUR logic, that's the customer's fault.


Just because a thought pops into your head doesn't mean you have to follow it.


NO ... THEY ... WANT ... INTERACTION ... FROM ... PARENT. I mean, if you have a kid and they ask for a drink of water, are you seriously going to go into another room and act like they are asking for a new car?

A parent's JOB is to parent. A manager's JOB is to manage. God can't even be said to be phoning it in per your religion. That's just neglect.


Because you keep saying people CAN'T.


Do messengers have the option not to get the message? Does God care about THEIR free will?


LOL. The irony meter is off the charts.


You know, it's funny: you take such stock in a source that doesn't even claim to be the writings, just "gleanings". To base the status of your soul on what sounds from the title like a Cliff Notes is just ... well, you do you, I guess.


Just because something might take awhile to figure out doesn't make it beyond comprehension. My dogs can't open cabinet doors. That I can doesn't make a god.


You're really, REALLY old. I hope you have good health insurance. Which one of the Guinness Book of Records for Oldest People are you?


People interested in the Truth ARE.


Gideon - Wikipedia

He has before. Why stop now?

Gideon had Him jumping through enough hoops to qualify Him for Ninja Warrior.


Then there's nothing stopping Him from figuring out how to speak to everyone and why that's important from our perspective as human beings.

I've questioned Baha'is several times about Christianity. I've asked them that if the Baha'is are right about God and truth, then Christians were wrong from the very beginning. They never spoke the truth about God, and it wasn't very long after that they got worse by declaring Jesus and the Holy Spirit as part of a Trinitarian God. So, if the Baha'is are right, God allowed a false message to become the Truth for millions of Christians. Not very good management.

 

[CG Didymus]

Hi..........
In a Bahai World things would be very very dodgy for non-bahais, I reckon.

Bahai legislation and criminal law does carry the death penalty, and there would be a Bahai Police Force. Right now we read the outrage and accusations that Bahai raises against critics, and this causes me to wonder what, in a Bahai World, Bahai Houses of Justice might decide to do about such critics...... would protesting about Bahai be a capital offence?

When folks are convinced that they alone are acting for God they can become very very dangerous.

Well, I guess we have nothing to worry about, because Baha'is keep telling us they only have jurisdiction over Baha'is. So all the capital punishment will be against other Baha'is. So, nothing to be concerned about... I guess?

 

[1213]

The Holy Qur'an is the Word of God, but it is not the most current....
The Revelations of the Bab of Baha'u'llah are the most current Word of God.

Why do you think so? Because you like it more?

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe what has been translated into English by the authorized interpreters of the Bahai Faith... There is no reason not to believe them...
So all translators but Bahais are cheats?
OMG....

I never said that, never. Why do you put words in my mouth?

I said: “I believe what has been translated into English by the authorized interpreters of the Baha’i Faith... There is no reason not to believe them...”

Here is your proof, of all that I posted to another member, and challenged by you. I promised an answer tonight, but you may have it now at 11.05hrs gmt.

The Bab wrote about turning non-babis out of five Persian cities, to reside within themselves.

The Bab wrote that Babis could turn non-babis out of their homes.

Bábism - Wikipedia

Some of the new laws included changing the direction of the Qibla to the Báb's house in Shiraz, Iran and changing the calendar to a solar calendar of nineteen months and nineteen days (which became the basis of the Bahá'í calendar) and prescribing the last month as a month of fasting.[20]
The Báb also created a large number of rituals and rites which remained largely unpracticed.[21] Some of these rituals include the carrying of arms only in times of necessity, the obligatory sitting on chairs, the advocating of the cleanliness displayed by Christians, the non-cruel treatment of animals, the prohibition of beating children severely, the recommendation of the printing of books, even scripture and the prohibition on the study of logic or dead languages.[21] While some statements in the Bayan show tolerance, there are other very harsh regulations in regards to relations with non-believers. For example, non-believers are forbidden to live in five central Iranian provinces, the holy places of previous religions are to be demolished, all non-Bábí books should be destroyed, believers are not to marry or sit in the company of non-believers, and the property of non-believers can be taken from them.[21] Some further ritual include elaborate regulations regarding pilgrimage, fasting, the manufacture of rings, the use of perfume, and the washing and disposal of the dead.[21]

More on this:-

The Sūrat al-mulk of the Qayyum al-asma',
OF THE BĀB.
Surah 98. Oh warriors of the Truth, when you stand in lines in a war against unbelievers, do not fear their great numbers, because We have written fear on their hearts. Kill each and every of them and do not let one of them remain on earth."

Surah 97 that means: Oh Believers! Take and occupy every city and its inhabitants for God's religion and do not accept from them a money in exchange ..."

Whatever the Bab wrote about is not relevant to the Baha’i Faith as it came to be established later. The Bab did have some very harsh Laws, but these laws were never implemented and were subject to being abrogated by “the One who God would make manifest” who was Baha'u'llah. Just as the Bab abrogated the Laws of Islam, Baha’u’llah abrogated the Babi laws.

The salient point is that none of these alleged activities ever took place.

The Bab was subjugated by those who held the reins of power, so he had no power, and no expectation of ever getting power. He revealed numerous laws which were never intended or possible to implement. His laws were designed to make a point and stimulate thought. They were a stepping stone from the even harsher laws of Islam and the less harsh laws of the Baha’i Faith, as set forth by Baha’u’llah in The Kitáb-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book.

 

[AdrianCo]

the answer:www.theexplationforeverything.com

 

[Bird123]

God does not communicate with me or any other human being, so God cannot tell me anything.
Of course the Messenger told me. That is the only way to get any communication from God.

Why do so many people have a problem with Messengers of God? This is the hundred-dollar question nobody can answer.

You misunderstand me. I make my own discoveries. I do not just follow a Messenger, but I am guided by the teachings of the Messenger because I know they are the truth. God is All-Knowing and All-Wise. The inerrant truth comes from God through His Messengers. Anything humans construe as truth is subject to error. It might be true or not. Anything we think we know is also subject to our ego, and that leads people away from God’s Truth.

You said: “I merely place truth upon your door.” How do you think you know what the truth is?

Your Quote: God does not communicate with me or any other human being, so God cannot tell me anything. My answer: This is not true. You limit only yourself with this thinking.

Your quote:Of course the Messenger told me. My answer: Then you limit your entire view to the will of this messenger including the weaknesses and the limited knowledge that the messenger has. How much do you miss with such a narrow view? How much do you never see when you value Beliefs over Total Truth and knowledge. Will your belief Blind you to so much that exists around you? The First thing that God showed me was that mankind carries such a narrow view. Will you choose this to be you?

Your Quote:Why do so many people have a problem with Messengers of God? My Answer: Everybody wants to rule the world. One of the petty things mankind holds so dear is to Control others. God's system has been working since before religion existed without specific middle men from God. It will continue to work long after religion becomes obsolete.

Your Quote:I am guided by the teachings of the Messenger because I know they are the truth. My Answer: At one time the truth was that the smallest part of an element was an atom. It was later discovered this was not the Real Truth. Truth must always be questioned especially when it comes through Beliefs. Do you question or do you accept? How much is missed when one settles for beliefs being the truth without doing what it takes to Discover the facts, regardless if we like the facts or not. One must always be open for the truth that exist that one does not agree with.

Your quote:God is All-Knowing and All-Wise. My Answer: If God is all-Knowing and All-Wise why does God need messengers, middlemen, and books? HE DOESN'T. God's system works regardless and does not depend on Anyone. There is Intelligence far beyond mankind's ideas or ruling and controlling the actions of others regardless of their means.

Your quote:Anything we think we know is also subject to our ego, and that leads people away from God’s Truth. My Answer: I could not have said it better. This is especially true when one bases truth on mere beliefs. The Ego gets in the way of so much learning.

Your quote:“I merely place truth upon your door.” How do you think you know what the truth is? My Answer: The Truth Stares you in the face. Go back and read what I said about God. Can't you tell? I have had that conversation with God that you said no one could have. Did I describe it well enough?

Finally, if you go by your definition, that would make me a messenger. How do I compare with your other messengers? I don't attempt to control your actions. I don't use God as a threat to alter your actions. I merely point you in a direction by which you can Discover the Truth for yourself. The rest is up to you. How about those other messengers?

Your journey has never ever been up to me. All I will tell you is to Be who you must! It's a part of the plan! Listen to the advice of others but make your own choices. Life's lessons are best learned that way.

You have all my Love and Kindness!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Who said anything about evidence?
You sure are fixated on evidence.

You did, several times.

Yes, I did several times, but not in the most recent posts. You are the one who keeps bringing it up:
#286 Trailblazer, Friday at 10:04 PM
#293 ChristineM, Yesterday at 7:18 AM

Yes am fixated on evidence when people misrepresent evidence just to bolster their personal belief.

I am not misrepresenting evidence, but more importantly, I am not trying to bolster my personal belief. I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything and I do not need to bolster what I already know is true.

What I have fits the dentition of the word evidence because it is “the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief is true or valid.”

You just don’t like what I have, but it is evidence, by definition. There could be no better evidence that someone is a Messenger of God than the evidence we have for Baha’u’llah and there never has been this much evidence for any previous Messenger of God.

I have explained why I think it is evidence several times so I see no need to repeat myself again. You are the one who keeps saying it is not evidence so it is your responsibility to explain why it is not evidence. To just repeating the mantra that it is not evidence is meaningless. There has to be a reason why it is not evidence. Can you explain what other kind of evidence there could be that would be acceptable to you and why it would be better than what I have cited?

Are you now withdrawing your claim that you have evidence your prophet was a messenger of god but you believe he was a messenger of god?

I absolutely am not withdrawing my claim. I do not believe without evidence. I have the best evidence there ever was that indicates that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God. With all that evidence I do not need proof.

 

[Trailblazer]

2nd Peter 1:16-18 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"18 and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

So again we have the Baha'i position contradicting the Christian NT position. Peter says he heard the voice. I really, really doubt it, but I do believe that is what the NT says. And Christians are justified in believing that is what happened. The problem for Baha'is is how to explain it away without denying the Bible as the "Word of God". So, can you?

I do not care what is in the NT and I do not care what the Christians believe. Baha'is are not obligated to explain anything. The dispensation of Baha'ullah unconditionally abrogates all the dispensations of the past, relegating the Bible to history. Why are we still talking about the past?

The Bible is not the inerrant Word of God because it was not written by a Manifestation of God, and there is no way to even know if Jesus ever said what was attributed to Him in the NT. The Writings of Baha'ullah were written by a Manifestation of God so they are inerrant. They thus supersede anything that is in the Bible. That explains pretty much everything you need to know.