Why don’t you believe in God?

[McBell]

The No True Scotsman seems rather popular today

 

[Pogo]

It is an irrefutable fact: if a person does not fear God, when one of his interests is at stake, he is more likely to violate any moral principle (if any exists) than a person who fears God to avoid personal damage.

The materialist principle of survival of the fittest is based on achieving the end regardless of the consequences. Evidently this is the philosophy that most of the world's wealthy people have adopted, since they do not care about the damage they do to their workers or the planet, if their profits increase.

Offended with the obvious truth?

Refuted by all crime statistics.
Atheists commit crimes at a much lower rate than Christians. In prisons atheists make up less than 1% of convicts, and since they're about 9% (or more) of the population, that means they're under-represented.Feb 21, 2024

 

[Pogo]

Have a great day

Yup, your other variation on "I'm ignoring you", I'm going away so I don't have to deal with you. LOL

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The No True Scotsman seems rather popular today

Yes, it seems to be a rather popular excuse.

 

[McBell]

Yup, your other variation on "I'm ignoring you", I'm going away so I don't have to deal with you. LOL

Interesting how someone with so many on ignore is completely unable to actually ignore them.

 

[Pogo]

Yes, it seems to be a rather popular excuse.

When it is all you have, flaunt it.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm not in a position to comment on how things are these days, since I only encounter the odd rare example at a funeral ─ it's been a while since I attended a wedding.

But I had no reason to doubt the sincerity of the people active in the church in my childhood. As I mentioned, except for my burst of confirmation enthusiasm, I mainly remember my disconnection.

" sincerity of the (Christianity) people "

Sincerity of the Christianity people is and or could be there, depends, but in spite of that, as I understand, they have been mislead by Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, please, right?

Regards

 

[Trailblazer]

This has nothing to do with what some arbitrary religious doctrine proclaims to be the truth. There is ample reason to believe that every mental activity we know of corresponds to physical brain activity. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that brain activity causes those activities, because it waxes and wanes according to changes in brain activity.

The brain is where human thought originates but scientists are still in the dark about how it works. The brain is only the physical organ in our head that supports the functions of the mind. The mind gives us the ability to think, feel, and engage in physical activity. How the human mind works is largely unknown by scientists.

I believe that the soul associates itself with the brain and mind while we are living in a physical body and it is the soul that animates the body and allows it to function. I believe the mind gets its power from the soul so the soul is like a lamp and the mind is the light that shines through the lamp.

If there were disembodied spirits that interacted with physical reality, then we should be able to detect them from physical activity, but we simply don't. In this case, lack of evidence really does look like evidence of lack.

I am not saying I believe that there are disembodied spirits that interact with physical reality and that we can detect them from physical activity, I don't believe that we can.

Some concrete verifiable evidence of interaction between a disembodied spirit like a god (or any disembodied spirit) and physical events. Given the attributes and powers attributable to the Abrahamic God, it would be trivial for God to provide evidence. After all, Abrahamic-inspired holy scripture is full of reports of such evidence, but why would we not observe similar miraculous events in modern times?

Regarding the alleged miracles in the Bible those are not verifiable evidence because they cannot be verified. Even if the miracles happened they were only evidence to the few people who witnessed them. Everyone else had to believe they happened. on faith.

So even if miraculous events occurred in modern times they would only be evidence for the people who witnessed those events.

But you are correct. An omnipotent God could prove that He exists if He chose to do so, so there are only two logical possibilities:

1. God exists and chooses not to prove it, or
2. God does not exist and that is why there is no proof.

I think that physicists and other scientists do a much better job of explaining its workings than laypersons like us. Nobody really expects you to know more, or even as much as, scientists about how the universe works.

Science was never a subject I studied, I studied geography and psychology. Physics is fascinating but I don't think I have a knack for it.

I have put in boldface the point at which you stop denying ad populum arguments and suddenly declare them logically valid. You claim you are not making an ad populum argument. Then you say you are trying to be "logical". Then you say that what most people believe should be trusted because it makes "logical sense". Despite your denial, you are actually making an ad populum argument.

No, I am not making an ad populum argument because I am not saying that "God exists" is true because many or most people believe that God exists.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I am only asking you some pointed questions that deserve answers. Why do most people believe in God? Why would most people believe in God if they had nothing to base their beliefs upon?

Any claim that something exists is an existential claim, so the claim that God exists is an existential claim. Unless I misunderstand you, you admit that there can be no verifiable evidence that God exists. If that is the case, then I see no reason to believe that God exists.

What I am saying is that there is no verifiable evidence (proof) that God exists. I do not know whether or not there 'could be' verifiable evidence, only God knows that.

Owing to the fact that I have a particular belief about the nature of God, I do not think there could ever be verifiable evidence (proof) that God exists, but I definitely believe that there is evidence and I believe that the Messengers of God are the evidence. I believe that are the only real evidence since they are the evidence that God has chosen to provide ever since mankind has existed on earth.

Right, but so what? Not everyone wants to be convinced by the evidence, and people are prone to wishful thinking.

All the atheists I have ever conversed with have told me that need to be convinced by evidence.
I guess you are saying that since people are prone to wishful thinking they could be fooled by anything that is presented as evidence.

When I publish my 25-tome autobiography, I will send you a complimentary copy of the volume that details all of the places I've looked. Meanwhile, you should just take everything I say as gospel truth. Seriously, though, that kind of question can't be answered in any practical way.

Now that you have gotten my curiosity up you are not going to tell me where you have looked?
I will tell you that I did not have to look very far.

Fair enough. That's pretty much what I thought you believed. I have no experiences to corroborate such claims, so I remain a skeptic.

I have believed that for a long time but more recently I have has some paranormal experiences that corroborated by beliefs.
I have to admit it was pretty eerie. There are a handful of people in this forum who know what I am talking about.

 

[blü 2]

God does no such things. The OT is pure unadulterated anthropomorphism.

But not everyone sees it that way.

 

[blü 2]

" sincerity of the (Christianity) people "

Sincerity of the Christianity people is and or could be there, depends, but in spite of that, as I understand, they have been mislead by Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, please, right?

Regards

We can agree, I suspect, that Paul was something of a dingbat.

 

[YoursTrue]

" sincerity of the (Christianity) people "

Sincerity of the Christianity people is and or could be there, depends, but in spite of that, as I understand, they have been mislead by Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, please, right?

Regards

Who told you this, by the way?

 

[Trailblazer]

But not everyone sees it that way.

Don't I know it.

 

[ChristineM]

That is exactly what I am saying. Why would Christians have to fear God when they are saved and forgiven by the cross sacrifice?
Christians do not live under the Law of God, Paul did away with that.

Many do fear god. Why, i have no idea except perhaps that's the way they've been indoctrinated

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Many do fear god. Why, i have no idea except perhaps that's the way they've been indoctrinated

Yeah, I am happy that I was indoctrinated differently as an athiest and I only have beliefs with evidence and no bias at all. I am that special.

 

[ChristineM]

Obviously Christians are not following the laws of God or teaching their children to.

Not your laws anyway

I never did that

Point of view

Sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black with no indoctrination necessary.

I follow the hard evidence, not the made up stuff

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not your laws anyway




Point of view



I follow the hard evidence, not the made up stuff

There is no hard evidence for all of the everyday world. That is a naive folk belief as far as I can tell.
In fact to believe there is hard evidence for everything is a case of indoctrination in the same sense as for religion is indoctrination.

 

[Trailblazer]

Many do fear god. Why, i have no idea except perhaps that's the way they've been indoctrinated

Yes, many Christians do fear God, and that is because of what the Bible says about God.

What does the Bible mean by fearing God?

Fearing the Lord means to be in reverent awe of His holiness, to give Him complete reverence and to honor Him as the God of great glory, majesty, purity and power.

What Does It Mean to Fear the Lord? - Olive Tree Bible Software


I fear God for the same reasons, not because I am afraid of what God is going to do to me. I'm not afraid of that..
In the a Baha'i prayer it says that God is more of a friend to us than we are to ourselves. I'll second that.

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, many Christians do fear God

Yep, like i said

In the a Baha'i prayer it says that God is more of a friend to us than we are to ourselves. I'll second that.

We had a very close family friend. He was Jewish. I was once sitting on his knee, a Sunday religious (Christian) programme was on TV.
and he told me...
I don't know why people fear god, i see him as a good friend, since Betty died god and i talk every night, he's such a comfort.

 

[Trailblazer]

and he told me...
I don't know why people fear god, i see him as a good friend, since Betty died god and i talk every night, he's such a comfort.

Since my husband died I talk to God all the time, mostly during my long walks in the country.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said:
" sincerity of the (Christianity) people "

Sincerity of the Christianity people is and or could be there, depends, but in spite of that, as I understand, they have been mislead by Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, please, right?

Who told you this, by the way?

I read the Bible NT and OT both of them, I could see it there, for myself, right?
On a side note, is it wrong to learn from others, if they say correct things after checking and verifying, right, please?
After all one has also been told by others, if it was correct for one, why it is wrong for me, right, please?

Regards