Why Don’t You Believe Jesus Rose From The Grave?

[LuisDantas]

Hmmm a good point Luis. I have long wondered about the missing years. As a story its patchiness seems to make it more plausible. Fiction would likely be a little more creative.

I suspect that the most likely scenario is that his life during that period did not fit in with the overall narrative. Probably got married and had kids and maybe family dies in an epidemic and like many grief stricken people, he turns spiritual.

Personally, I think that it indicates that the Gospels use Jesus as a vehicle for allegory, much as Plato uses Socrates. There is no need to establish whether the words were accurate to real historical situations, because the message not meant to be shaped by the situations, but rather the other way around.

I assume that very early Christians knew that, but fairly quickly that understanding was lost due to overzealousness or other reasons.

 

[firedragon]

If this is what you would like to think or how you choose to play this one, that's your choice. I don't think it necessary to defend my position, given you don't seem to have the comprehension ability to understand it or enough intellectual honesty to acknowledge it. That's fine.

Did you know that strawberries have around 223 ~`seeds on them? It's an approximation, and I'm not sure why, but it's true. Haha .. At least, I choose to believe it's true, but I base this on what I've read about it and how they appear visually. I don't bother counting. I guess I have other things that require my attention more than counting seeds, which reminds me. I've got some peach seeds going through cold stratification. I'm not sure if they've rooted yet. The things we gotta deal with in life, or rather choose to. I keep forgetting I'm a free agent.

Have you listened to this one?

I don't know what you are talking about mate. Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

Personally, I think that it indicates that the Gospels use Jesus as a vehicle for allegory, much as Plato uses Socrates. There is no need to establish whether the words were accurate to real historical situations, because the message not meant to be shaped by the situations, but rather the other way around.

I assume that very early Christians knew that, but fairly quickly that understanding was lost due to overzealousness or other reasons.

Scholars say the gospels were written in the genre of "ancient biography" or/and "sacred history".

 

[LuisDantas]

Scholars say the gospels were written in the genre of "ancient biography" or/and "sacred history".

Sacred history can be fictional. Arguably it works best when it is.

As for them being biographies... I suppose you might call them that if you really want to. Doesn't make a lot of difference, but you can. Doesn't make their Jesus any less fictional, either.

 

[firedragon]

Sacred history can be fictional. Arguably it works best when it is.

As for them being biographies... I suppose you might call them that if you really want to. Doesn't make a lot of difference, but you can. Doesn't make their Jesus any less fictional, either.

It's not me. It's scholars.
And sacred history is not just "fiction". You are wrong.

 

[Balthazzar]

I don't know what you are talking about mate. Cheers.

Yup

 

[firedragon]

Yup

Ciao.

 

[HonestJoe]

Nothing I would say would satisfy you,

Nothing you could say I expect, but only because I've heard everything that is typically said about this and it is not convincing to me (either way). As I said though, you'd just need to provide a definitive hypothesis and some objective evidence to support it to get my interest (just the hypothesis would be a start).

You didn't answer my question though; Why exactly do you believe this?

 

[Balthazzar]

Ciao.

Aloha

 

[rocala]

I assume that very early Christians knew that, but fairly quickly that understanding was lost due to overzealousness or other reasons.

That sounds very reasonable. Somewhere on youtube I have seen two academics discussing this. As I recall, they agreed that this emphasis on historicity took hold during the enlightenment.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Jesus never said that he rose from the dead. He merely said, "I'm alive."

If I told you, "I'm alive," would it occur to you to assume that means I died and rose from the dead?

 

[LuisDantas]

It's not me. It's scholars.
And sacred history is not just "fiction". You are wrong.

We would have to consider the credentials of those so far unnamed scholars, then.

And I don't think you get to decide that I am wrong. Or that I should care if you do.

 

[firedragon]

We would have to consider the credentials of those so far unnamed scholars, then.

Of course. Check out Oscar Cullmann, Hans Conzelmann, Craig S. Keener, David E. Aune.

And I don't think you get to decide that I am wrong. Or that I should care if you do.

Of course you don't seem to care if you are right or wrong. That's why you are just saying things for the sake of saying things. No problem mate. Your prerogative.

 

[LuisDantas]

Of course. Check out Oscar Cullmann, Hans Conzelmann, Craig S. Keener, David E. Aune.

Anyone who is a true historian, archeologist, or of some other true academic background?

The premise of being a teologian is that you won't be interested in significant questioning of the subject matter.

Of course you don't seem to care if you are right or wrong. That's why you are just saying things for the sake of saying things. No problem mate. Your prerogative.

Gee. Committing very basic mistakes of text interpretation at the first opportunity - intentionally or otherwise - will surely do wonders for the credibility of your claims.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Don’t You Believe Jesus Rose From The Grave?

Because that will prove he did not fulfill the Sign of Jonah, which he promised to show to the "adulterous" Jews-Judaism people of his time, please, right?

Regards

 

[Madsaac]

No

Which one are you saying no to?

Dead people rising from the dead or people flying?

And why do you believe in one more than the other?

 

[Jimmy]

Which one are you saying no to?

Dead people rising from the dead or people flying?

I don’t remember the question

 

[Madsaac]

I don’t remember the question

Oh you replied no and I think it was to my Aunt Gladys flying.

However if you say no to people flying how can you say someone came back from the dead?

And why do you believe (and others) in one more than the other?

Why not believe in the metaphor only?

 

[Jimmy]

Oh you replied no and I think it was to my Aunt Gladys flying.

However if you say no to people flying how can you say someone came back from the dead?

And why do you believe (and others) in one more than the other?

Why not believe in the metaphor only?

Do you not see at all how silly it sounds to think a human was dead and then came back to life?

I said no to this question.

 

[firedragon]

Anyone who is a true historian, archeologist, or of some other true academic background?

It's like asking a mathematician to evaluate art.

Ciao.