Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Bathsheba]

If you apply the same amount of scrutiny to the story of Jesus as you did Joseph Smith, you would achieve the same results.

// english accent on

Dead.Spot.On Rick ole chap... BRILLIANT

// english accent off

I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[Scott1]

Thank you for the warm welcome Scott1.

I'm not as bad a guy as some think......

Forgive my ignorance of your beliefs, but I don't see where it says here that I need to understand Christ's true nature to be saved. And I assume that the people getting saved are Christians.

It doesn't... and that's the point.... I'm not bring up this in the discussion to tell people that they are not Christian and that means they are going to hell... I'm simply trying to explain what the title "Christian" means to me.... I've tried to make it clear that I don't claim to know who goes to heaven/hell.... this is just a discussion on theology.

and in the end it doesn’t really matter if we called them Christians or if they understood the true nature of Christ.

Amen.... but all I'm trying to do is pass along what I believe is the truth.... non-Catholics and non-Christians--- heck even atheists can go to heaven.... all this discussion is about is trying to pass along what I believe is the saving truth of Christ and the orthodox faith.

An example I use:
Life is the Grand Canyon..... we are born on one side and "heaven" is on the other side. The Catholic faith is a paved, four lane, super-highway bridge over the gap.... the BEST way to get to the "other side".
Now..... other faiths use a variety of means to get over... from a pretty sturdy bridge to those people who must try to climb down, walk, and then climb up the other side.....

I'm sure it is possible to walk over... and I don't doubt that these people are sincere in trying and I trust in the mercy of God to guide them over even if they don't know about the super-highway or they reject it of their own free will.

All I'm trying to do is let people know that I believe there is an easier way to the other side..... not a judgment about them, but in my mind, a charitable communication.

Hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from.
S

 

[blueman]

There are inherent contradictions from a doctrinal perspective to the Judeo-
Christian doctrine. In addition, it was written several centuries subsequent to the life and ministry of Christ. So from a historical perspective, the credibility of the bool comes under serious scrutiny. Unlike the books of the New Testament, which was written well within the generation of people that witnessed said events, the Book of Mormon pales in comparison from a historical standpoint.

 

[blueman]

There are inherent contradictions from a doctrinal perspective to the Judeo-
Christian doctrine. In addition, it was written several centuries subsequent to the life and ministry of Christ. So from a historical perspective, the credibility of the bool comes under serious scrutiny. Unlike the books of the New Testament, which was written well within the generation of people that witnessed said events, the Book of Mormon pales in comparison from a historical standpoint.

 

[!Fluffy!]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true?

There are inherent contradictions from a doctrinal perspective to the Judeo-
Christian doctrine. In addition, it was written several centuries subsequent to the life and ministry of Christ. So from a historical perspective, the credibility of the book comes under serious scrutiny. Unlike the books of the New Testament, which was written well within the generation of people that witnessed said events, the Book of Mormon pales in comparison from a historical standpoint.

I agree.

For my answer, please see this discussion:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...0-joseph-smith-prophet-god-39.html#post976254

 

[Katzpur]

No problem bro... your other LDS friends are so darn mean and angry, I want to make sure I at least have you to chat with!

If you will just tell me what "mean and angry" things I've said to you, I promise I'll leave you alone. I am serious about this. The last I knew, we really were on good terms. I don't know what I did to change that, and I would like very much to know.

 

[sojourner]

But they don't. I'm not going to lie about it.

And I don't recall saying they don't have "any" authority, they just don't have the Priesthood authority.

See, you can take this cavalier attitude and dish it out when it comes to the rest of us, but yet you whine and moan and can't take it from others. "How come people have to say that we're not real Christians?"

My take is this: Why can't all of us play nicely in God's sandbox, and share the toys equally? That's what God wants.

 

[sojourner]

Oh cut it out.... it's freakin common sense.

Just use the analogy of the game of baseball.... a game that has an established set of rules and guidelines about the proper way to play the game.

All of a sudden, a team (we'll call them the Latter Day Red Sox) decides that they want to play baseball.... except they use a basketball.... a hockey stick.... and run around the bases backwards.

"It's baseball" say the LD Sox......

Ummm.... no, actually, it's not.

"Yes it is..... our prophet came up with a NEW rule book for baseball.... it's a companion to Major league baseball"

Call it what you want gang.... but that ain't baseball.

"HOW DARE YOU! It's so sad that your bigoted views can't accept this is true baseball!"

Ummmm.... I respect your right to play whatever game you'd like, but we've been playing baseball for a long time... we've got a rule book(Bible).... hall of fame(Saints)... a pretty cool commisioner (Pope)...the whole deal. I think we have the right to say what is and what isn't baseball.

"ARROGANT BIGOTS!"

You've almost got my point. Here's what kills it for me:

I think we have the right to say what is and what isn't baseball.

Don't you see that you're doing the same "I've got the real scoop" one-upsmanship that you see them doing to us? Why do you have a "right to say" any more than they do?

My point is that we don't have a "right to say." We are not supposed to be in the business of gatekeeping. That argument was settled a long, long time ago, when Paulo convinced the Jerusalem Church to let the Gentiles in without being circumcised.

Your baseball game metaphor works, except that maybe, somehow, in God's ballpark, there's room for all different sorts of takes on the game. The problem begins when we say, "You can't play with us unless you play by our rules (as we have interpreted them)." It gets worse when they say, "We've found the real rules (as we understand them) and we've decided to hijack this sport, because you're wrong!"

Meanwhile, the angels toss aside their beer and brats, and go home; God sighs, takes off his chest protector and mask and calls the game on account of acid rain.

 

[DeepShadow]

My point is that we don't have a "right to say." We are not supposed to be in the business of gatekeeping. That argument was settled a long, long time ago, when Paulo convinced the Jerusalem Church to let the Gentiles in without being circumcised.

Hence my point about leaving judgement as to who is Christian up to Jesus Christ. After all, we're told to let the wheat and tares grow together until the time of reaping, and let the angels sort it out. Seems like some people are trying to sort early.

 

[DeepShadow]

The problem begins when we say, "You can't play with us unless you play by our rules (as we have interpreted them)." It gets worse when they say, "We've found the real rules (as we understand them) and we've decided to hijack this sport, because you're wrong!"

Agreed, but bear in mind that not all Mormons are saying this. I can say where God has led me, personally. I'll never say anything about where He's leading others. As I've said before, that's not my place.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true?

Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! NIV

This scripture probably has something to do with it. I have read two accounts of the History of the Mormon church, and have found both to be lacking.

But hey, that's only my opinion. You have the right to your own opinion.

 

[sojourner]

If you apply the same amount of scrutiny to the story of Jesus as you did Joseph Smith, you would achieve the same results. Where are the 10 comandments? Oh yeah, Moses destroyed them when he got upset with folks dancing naked around a golden calf. I wonder where the golden calf is?

Faith is hard for some people to grasp. I look at the result of what I see. LDS people are model citizens in my opinion. I see them living clean lives and holding high moral values. I am at odds with them with where heaven is and how one gets there and I am fascinated with them baptising the dead.

So What! How do I know I am right? All I know is I see good people who walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Mormons have my total respect.

Let me open a can of worms. Things are not always as they appear to be. The LDS are not any more "model citizens, living clean lives and holding high moral values" than any other religious group.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ummmm.... I respect your right to play whatever game you'd like, but we've been playing baseball for a long time... we've got a rule book(Bible).... hall of fame(Saints)... a pretty cool commisioner (Pope)...the whole deal. I think we have the right to say what is and what isn't baseball.

Yep. It's never acceptable to have two sports or two religions describe different things with the same term. In that spirit, I assume you'll be campaigning with just as much vigor to change the name of what Americans call "football" then, won't you?

BTW - thank you for enlightening me on another matter: I wasn't aware that what kids play on a diamond after school isn't baseball by virtue of their lack of a hall of fame and commissioner. Now I know that if it isn't directly sanctioned by Major League Baseball, it's not really baseball. Consider me corrected.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hehe.... way to play along with the analogy!

..... but here we come back to the "save the tears" aspect of the debate.... your entire faith is predicated upon the notion that after, what... AD 70?.... that God decided the Christian Church should be led by apostate morons for 1800 years until Mr. Smith found some golden plates?

If the Marcionites or the Gnostics were right, than the Christian Church is still apostate.

Come on now.... really.... you expect ANY non-LDS to think this is anything but a pious delusion at best or a complete fraud in the worst case? Really.... come on.... you've gotta be able to disconnect a little and see it from our side for a second.

Pot? Kettle?

Consider your own faith from a Jewish perspective: if longevity is a sign of correctness, then how likely would it be that God would let His church of the time be led by what you call "apostate morons" for 3000 years until Jesus turns up and tells everyone the "right" way to do things?

If you're going to criticize, at least apply your criticisms consistently.

 

[sojourner]

If the Marcionites or the Gnostics were right, than the Christian Church is still apostate.

What about the Pelagians?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about the Pelagians?

Yup, them too. And the Arians, the Donatists and a whole host of others. I just picked a couple off the top of my head.

 

[DeepShadow]

If the Marcionites or the Gnostics were right, than the Christian Church is still apostate.


Pot? Kettle?

Consider your own faith from a Jewish perspective: if longevity is a sign of correctness, then how likely would it be that God would let His church of the time be led by what you call "apostate morons" for 3000 years until Jesus turns up and tells everyone the "right" way to do things?

If you're going to criticize, at least apply your criticisms consistently.

Doctors for an ailing church lookin pretty good right now, eh, Scott?

 

[sojourner]

Let's not kid ourselves. The Church is a hospital for sinners. It's likely that the Church, in some aspects, still needs a doctor.

 

[DeepShadow]

How many people do I have to frubal before I can frubal you again?

 

[sojourner]

How many people do I have to frubal before I can frubal you again?

144,000? Just a guess -- based on Revelation...