Why don't JW's accept invitations?

[savagewind]

hi kjw,

you might want to remind her she's in a DIR and isnt supposed to be debating here. Of course she can start her own thread in the debate section if she wants.

A debate is an opposing argument. (I looked it up)

 

[Katzpur]

we wouldnt attend 'any' church services...including christian services.

Wait a minute, Pegg. You've told me before that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians. So when you're attending services at your Kingdom Hall, aren't you attending a Christian service?

Although that doesnt mean we wouldnt attend as an observer a funeral or a wedding ceremony held at another church . That would be an individual choice.

Since it's an individual choice, I'm wondering if you, personally, would attend, let's say a funeral of a friend or co-worker.

This is also maybe a little bit off topic, but I'm wondering, do Jehovah's Witnesses have "friends" outside of their religion? I mean, do you, for instance, have girlfriends you like to go out to lunch, to a movie, or shopping with? Or are all of your social activities pretty much confined to associating with those of your own faith?

 

[Pegg]

Wait a minute, Pegg. You've told me before that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians. So when you're attending services at your Kingdom Hall, aren't you attending a Christian service?

what i mean is 'other' christian services besides our own.

Since it's an individual choice, I'm wondering if you, personally, would attend, let's say a funeral of a friend or co-worker.

yes, i think most JW's would do so. I've certainly attended funerals and weddings of friends and family, so thats a yes from me.

This is also maybe a little bit off topic, but I'm wondering, do Jehovah's Witnesses have "friends" outside of their religion? I mean, do you, for instance, have girlfriends you like to go out to lunch, to a movie, or shopping with? Or are all of your social activities pretty much confined to associating with those of your own faith?

i think most JW's have friends and family who are not JW's themselves. Practically every JW i know has family who are not witnesses who they have some association with.

There is a line we draw when it comes to who we socialise with on a regular basis though (and thats personally drawn by everyone, some to a greater degree others to a lesser). We wouldn't want to have close association with people who might lead immoral or risky lifestyles or those who dont appreciate spiritual things because they could be a bad influence on us...so we certainly restrict the amount of time we might spend with non-witness family and friends. The principle we follow is 1Cor 15:33 Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits...and as much as we might love someone, they can still be a bad influence on us.

I can guarantee you that a JW will always be there for them when needed, but we wouldnt deliberately spend a lot of our social time with them....our closest associates are our spiritual brothers and sisters and im sure that holds true for almost all witnesses.

 

[Shiranui117]

Yes thats correct. Jesus began to rule when the gentile times ended. But what he has been doing througout the past 100 years is teaching people... he foretold that, before the end of satan and the wicked system, he would be leading a world wide preaching work. During that time, there would be distressing conditions for earths inhabitants with wars, pestilences, food shortages and earthquakes.... but through all this, Jesus would be teaching people by means of a world wide preaching work that would be headed by his disciples:

Matt 24:3 While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” 4 In answer Jesus said to them: ... 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. ...12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Matt 28:19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

So the fact that Satan is still here and wickedness is still prevalent does not change our view that Jesus is now ruling in heaven as the king of Gods kingdom. He was very clear that a lot of bad things would be happening during his 'presence' and would continue until he brought the system to its final end.

We believe that since 1914, the world has gone into a steady decline because we are living in the last days...2Timothy 3:1-5 calls the last days "critical times hard to deal with"

This is all the more proof that Jesus is ruling in heaven right now...and soon, mankind will experience relief from the many woes its currently experiencing.

When do the JW's believe this period will end? Will it last 100 years, or longer?

 

[Pegg]

When do the JW's believe this period will end? Will it last 100 years, or longer?

we dont know when it will end, but the feeling is that it wont be long.

keep in mind Jesus advice in this regard:

Mark 13:32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is.

 

[Katzpur]

what i mean is 'other' christian services besides our own.

yes, i think most JW's would do so. I've certainly attended funerals and weddings of friends and family, so thats a yes from me.

i think most JW's have friends and family who are not JW's themselves. Practically every JW i know has family who are not witnesses who they have some association with.

There is a line we draw when it comes to who we socialise with on a regular basis though (and thats personally drawn by everyone, some to a greater degree others to a lesser). We wouldn't want to have close association with people who might lead immoral or risky lifestyles or those who dont appreciate spiritual things because they could be a bad influence on us...so we certainly restrict the amount of time we might spend with non-witness family and friends. The principle we follow is 1Cor 15:33 Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits...and as much as we might love someone, they can still be a bad influence on us.

I can guarantee you that a JW will always be there for them when needed, but we wouldnt deliberately spend a lot of our social time with them....our closest associates are our spiritual brothers and sisters and im sure that holds true for almost all witnesses.

Thank you, Pegg.

 

[Marco19]

we dont know when it will end, but the feeling is that it wont be long.

Hello Pegg,

Yes, that's what I have noticed, you don't mention any specific date.
But it seems to be too close, not even more that a decade, don't you think so?

in nowadays your study edition of WT it mentions three points lead to the end time, and the third point talks about the generation. according to the explanation "generation" includes the overlapping generation. so hardly after few years any of those will still remain alive, therefore the end definitely is so soon.

I would like to know your opinion about this particular point,
please feel free to correct, if what I mentioned above is wrong.

Thanks in advance

 

[Jensen]

Hi peg, thanks for your answers. I think that I understand, it is about what I'd expected, but I still appreciate your answers that reinforce what I thought. There is still some questions though.

Although, I get your answer about attending funerals and weddings, there wasn't an actual answer to the not attending Synagogue being that both believe in the same unitarian God Yahweh of the OT. Especially, being that they, like JWs and a few other,s do not believe in a trinitarian God. So what I don't understand is why not attend their services if desired or asked? You see God the same, as one.

Thanks for your answer concerning the ruler of this world, and Jesus' rule now, and the explanation of Mount Zion. And for the verses supporting it. Is much to think about.

Jensen

 

[Pegg]

Hello Pegg,

Yes, that's what I have noticed, you don't mention any specific date.
But it seems to be too close, not even more that a decade, don't you think so?

I would love it to be tomorrow! But there are still 3 major events which are yet to take place....those 3 events will lead us to Armageddons door.

But on the other hand, there are many MANY people who still do not know about what is soon to take place. The JW.ORG website receives 1,000 requests 'per day' for a home bible study. And we keep in mind the words of Jehovah which say:
2Peter 3:9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance

If the end comes within 10 years, it will be well worth the wait. In the meantime, we will keep watching for the signs to be fulfilled because it may be sooner then 10years.

in nowadays your study edition of WT it mentions three points lead to the end time, and the third point talks about the generation. according to the explanation "generation" includes the overlapping generation. so hardly after few years any of those will still remain alive, therefore the end definitely is so soon.

there has been new light shed on what the 'generation' means.

We used to think it meant all people in general. But the brothers discerned that it really only referees to anointed Christians. There are two generations of anointed christians.....the first who saw the beginning of Christs kingdom, and those who were anointed after that event.

All the ones from the first group have passed way. The anointed living today are those of the 2nd group who became anointed sometime after Christs presence began. There are very few of these ones who remain.

I would like to know your opinion about this particular point,
please feel free to correct, if what I mentioned above is wrong.

Thanks in advance

I personally feel we are on the brink.

 

[Pegg]

Hi peg, thanks for your answers. I think that I understand, it is about what I'd expected, but I still appreciate your answers that reinforce what I thought. There is still some questions though.

Although, I get your answer about attending funerals and weddings, there wasn't an actual answer to the not attending Synagogue being that both believe in the same unitarian God Yahweh of the OT. Especially, being that they, like JWs and a few other,s do not believe in a trinitarian God. So what I don't understand is why not attend their services if desired or asked? You see God the same, as one.

Thanks for your answer concerning the ruler of this world, and Jesus' rule now, and the explanation of Mount Zion. And for the verses supporting it. Is much to think about.

Jensen

Hey, no problem.

There are some diametrically opposing views between Christianity and Judaism.

Christians worship Jehovah by means of Christ Jesus. But a Jew would not recognize Jesus as the mediator between God and man. They worship God through Moses as mediator.

For this reason alone we could not attend a synagogue service because our mediator is not Moses but Jesus. Also, Christians have been baptised in the name of Jesus....hence we recognize his authority as our mediator. Our view is that Jesus is the Messiah, they dont believe that. So their services would not be approaching God through Jesus.


And if we are not approaching God through the correct channel, the channel God himself appointed, then we are not approaching God at all and the worship is in vain. Sad but true.

And i can assure you that Jews feel exactly the same way...they recognize that Moses was the mediator and they would not approach God through any other person or prophet except for Moses because they recognize that if God chooses a channel, then we must approach him through that channel. For a christian, that channel is Jesus:

John 14:6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1Tim 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.


Its also noteworthy that Jews are still under the old law covenant of Moses, whereas christians are following the new covenant under Christ.

Hebrews 8:6 But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry because he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established on better promises


So to attend a service based on the mediatorship of Moses under the old covenant would be against our dedication and faith in Christ as the Messiah, his perfect sacrifice which frees us from condemnation to death, and his authority as our King and redeemer.

 

[Marco19]

But there are still 3 major events which are yet to take place....those 3 events will lead us to Armageddons door.

hmmm, i can't recall more than two major things:
1- poltitcal powers/UN will attack the organized religions (seems to be all religions, not only Roman Catholic church).

2- after that Satan will attack you (JW).

not sure if this what you have meant in your post, but wonder what would be the third event, couly you plz help

 

[Marco19]

All the ones from the first group have passed way. The anointed living today are those of the 2nd group who became anointed sometime after Christs presence began. There are very few of these ones who remain.

Don't you think that the Governing Body and many others know how many left? why they don't announce, it will become like a measure.

But on the other hand this has come to my mind:
when you mentioned a new light I was like it may even change by time, as many things has been changed by time, so may be later it will become brighter light, and therefore it's not good idea to announce/inform number of those who are alive.

How do you understand the concept of new light & the light becomes brighter?

Thanks again

 

[Pegg]

hmmm, i can't recall more than two major things:
1- poltitcal powers/UN will attack the organized religions (seems to be all religions, not only Roman Catholic church).

2- after that Satan will attack you (JW).

not sure if this what you have meant in your post, but wonder what would be the third event, couly you plz help

there is one more in 1Thess 5:1 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

Something will happen on the world scene where the nations think they have accomplished 'peace and security' and they will make the proclamation.


You are correct on the other two events you mention..... so all up, only 3 to go.

 

[Pegg]

Don't you think that the Governing Body and many others know how many left? why they don't announce, it will become like a measure.

But on the other hand this has come to my mind:
when you mentioned a new light I was like it may even change by time, as many things has been changed by time, so may be later it will become brighter light, and therefore it's not good idea to announce/inform number of those who are alive.

How do you understand the concept of new light & the light becomes brighter?

Thanks again

actually, the number of them is given in our currently 2014 year book

When it comes to new understandings, God reveals things only at the time they need to be understood or known by his people.

Thats why John the baptist went baptising people and declaring the 'coming' of the Messiah. It was the right time for the people to know. And its not different today. As we draw closer to an event, God reveals this to his anointed ones and they begin to 'discern' something that had never occurred to them before and they start publishing that information to the congregations.

And from the latest series of watchtowers and from the recent assemblies and the upcoming district conventions, a lot of new information is coming out about the 'kingdom' and its plans.... so there is a feeling that we must be getting very near to the end of this system.

 

[Marco19]

actually, the number of them is given in our currently 2014 year book

Hi Pegg,

It seems that I have problem with my eyes, I have already read the book, even I remember two things (Be thou faithful unto death), and the story of bible brown

Could you please mention the number and which page it's been mentioned.

Thanks in advance

 

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg,

It seems that I have problem with my eyes, I have already read the book, even I remember two things (Be thou faithful unto death), and the story of bible brown

Could you please mention the number and which page it's been mentioned.

Thanks in advance

its on page 176 of the 2014 year book. I think bible brown is from the 2013 year book??

the total number of partakers last year was 13,204 worldwide.

 

[Marco19]

its on page 176 of the 2014 year book. I think bible brown is from the 2013 year book??

the total number of partakers last year was 13,204 worldwide.

Hi again Pegg,

I think we are talking about different things, I know the number of the partakers. I am interested in something else:

All the ones from the first group have passed way. The anointed living today are those of the 2nd group who became anointed sometime after Christs presence began. There are very few of these ones who remain.

When I mentioned how many they are and why the GB don't announce their number, I meant the:

2nd group who became anointed sometime after Christs presence began

and not the number of the partakers which is obvious and JW annualy report on the yearbook.

P.S I've checked "bible brown", it's from 2014

Thanks again

 

[Pegg]

Hi again Pegg,

I think we are talking about different things, I know the number of the partakers. I am interested in something else:


When I mentioned how many they are and why the GB don't announce their number, I meant the: and not the number of the partakers which is obvious and JW annualy report on the yearbook.

P.S I've checked "bible brown", it's from 2014

Thanks again

well its only those who believe they are anointed who partake... so the number of partakers are the anointed.

I enjoyed reading about bible Brown...i think i may have read about his experience in a watchtower in recent years.

 

[Marco19]

well its only those who believe they are anointed who partake... so the number of partakers are the anointed.

Thanks Pegg,

Coincidently I was reading the study article for next week when I have noticed this thread

Therefore, I still think that we have different things talking about, let me simplify what I want to say by posting the paragraph from WT study edition which talks about this:

The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth. Thus, not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” of whom Jesus spoke. Today, those in this second group are themselves advancing in years. Yet, Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:34 give us confidence that at least some of “this generation will by no means pass away” before seeing the start of the great tribulation. This should add to our conviction that little time remains before the King of God’s Kingdom acts to destroy the wicked and usher in a righteous new world.

So I am not talking about the annointed/partakers, my question is about the number of the "this generation" the number of still alive, because by knowing how many left we can have a real pointer how close we are to the end, as the above paragraph explains.

Hope that I could clarify my point,
Thanks in advance

 

[Marco19]

I enjoyed reading about bible Brown...i think i may have read about his experience in a watchtower in recent years.

Yes, I really enjoyed reading this nice & full of challenges story