Why faith is evil

[jmvizanko]

Momentarily letting aside my view that talking about atheists as a group is absurd.
No they don't.
Dawkins believes in aliens.

No, Dawkins thinks they are highly likely. Life arose here, which is evidence that the ability for life to arise exists. Then when you consider the ridiculously large number of star systems, its likely it has happened elsewhere as well. Unless you think god made this huge universe and for some strange reason just created life on one planet, but once again, there is no evidence to suggest this claim.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Don't get me wrong either, faith can cause some people to do evil things at times, but it isn't the faith itself. It is the person doing the evil deed, not the faith.

People who don't feel love and compassion for their fellow humans and don't engage in self refection of their personal behavior is what creates evil.

In the past folks in the western world were Christians and they were in charge. Many had a dualistic view of ethics they believed my way is right and the "other" way is wrong. They created the "other" do to the lack of insight in their own dark side lurking in the cobweb corners of their own mind. This leads to emotion immaturity that is a breading ground for that some call evil.(I prefer to call it ignorance) Since humans tend to project their own person crap on the world at large. This has caused much human suffering.

Today it seems like many Atheists like Dawkins have just switched the ethical system around. The Christians are the other. They don't burn them at the stake, still they view the world in the same dualistic manor. So their beliefs differ only in degree and not kind.

To me a great example of a whole complete person who has come to terms with the dark side of his own mind is the Nobel Prize winning Christian Bishop Desmond Tutu. This man suffered at the hands of the white South Africans more then most of us can imagine (the"other") Yet when a crowd of blacks were killing a white police officer. He through his body over the police man to save him and was willing to sacrifice himself for the "other". You see I believe that this is a mark of a true evolved human. Someone like Dawkins is very smart talks a good game. Still he is emotional stunted I can relate to him. I might be just like him. Still he is not a good example for me to follow.

“A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker.”
-Buddha

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can't agree with Dawkins. Faith provides such a great service for the community that to call it evil is discredit all the studies that have found positive aspects of faith, and belonging to an organized religion (such as better stress coping, community involvement which is a key to longevity for the elderly, and all the charity and aid relief). Who in there right mind would say Mother Teressa was motivated by evil? Even if what one places faith in isn't real, why call it evil if it helps them? Recovering drug addicts, people with no one else, and people who were on a bad path in life have all found refuge and recovery in faith. Actually I think it is arrogant of Dawkins to make such a claim.

 

[sojourner]

Bad Dawkins! Bad! Bad! [spanks Richard's nose w/rolled-up paper]

 

[jmvizanko]

I can't agree with Dawkins. Faith provides such a great service for the community that to call it evil is discredit all the studies that have found positive aspects of faith, and belonging to an organized religion (such as better stress coping, community involvement which is a key to longevity for the elderly, and all the charity and aid relief). Who in there right mind would say Mother Teressa was motivated by evil? Even if what one places faith in isn't real, why call it evil if it helps them? Recovering drug addicts, people with no one else, and people who were on a bad path in life have all found refuge and recovery in faith. Actually I think it is arrogant of Dawkins to make such a claim.

You need to make the case for why faith is necessary to accomplish these things. One can have the pros of religion, charity, empathy, resolve to stop using drugs, without an appeal to a few simple things held true without evidence. And if this is true, then faith is only worth its cons.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can't agree with Dawkins. Faith provides such a great service for the community that to call it evil is discredit all the studies that have found positive aspects of faith, and belonging to an organized religion (such as better stress coping, community involvement which is a key to longevity for the elderly, and all the charity and aid relief).

Why is faith necessary for any of that?

I'd say that the things you list are generally marks of community, not faith. As it happens, humanity has generally developed faith and community together, but there's no particular reason to keep it that way.

Who in there right mind would say Mother Teressa was motivated by evil?

Mother Teresa received millions upon millions of dollars in donations every year - enough to fully fund a state-of-the-art hospital and help countless people. Instead, she put the money towards her chain of convents. She took patients who were dying painfully in the gutter of what were generally curable conditions and simply gave them a bed in which to die painfully of their curable conditions. Out of some misguided notion about the "graceof suffering, she even withheld normal painkillers from them.

I'm not sure I'd say that she was motivated by evil, but I sure wouldn't call her actions wholly good.

Even if what one places faith in isn't real, why call it evil if it helps them? Recovering drug addicts, people with no one else, and people who were on a bad path in life have all found refuge and recovery in faith. Actually I think it is arrogant of Dawkins to make such a claim.

But when a person's faith leads them to recover from drugs or the like, how else does that faith manifest in their lives?

Also, the success of the various non-faith-based addiction recovery programs says to me that faith is not necessary for this sort of positive change.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't see how faith itself could be evil. It couldn't be. It isn't the state of mind, it is what you do with it.

It can be and it often is. When unwisely placed, faith leads people into serious mistakes.

Although I really wonder what exactly you mean by faith. There is quite some variation around there on the meaning of that word.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Faith in unenlightened words or unwise words can lead to ignorant acts or delusional thinking and beliefs. Just the way it is. Always discern for yourself whether something seems right to you or not. Let your heart and personal research be your guide.

 

[Reverend Rick]

You would think that people who have been called names and been hated all their lives would have a little more compassion for folks with unlike minds. Is this about what is right or get even time? Calling a whole group of people evil is just plain wrong.

It is hate mongering plain and simple. Dawkins can kiss my butt!

 

[Kriya Yogi]

You would think that people who have been called names and been hated all their lives would have a little more compassion for folks with unlike minds. Is this about what is right or get even time? Calling a whole group of people evil is just plain wrong.

It is hate mongering plain and simple. Dawkins can kiss my butt!

You're right for the most part. People do deserve some compassion and guidance, if they are trying to be better people. However if they blantantly don't care about the welfare of others and don't listen to their hearts and cause people harm based on what they believe then that makes it kind of hard to have compassion for them.

 

[Quiddity]

In terms of actual frequency? Probably.

I think if you were bombarded with anti-religious messages as much as the average non-theist gets pro-religious ones, you'd start to bristle, too.

When was the last time you attended a sporting event or a family dinner that started off with a little message speaking against what you believe?

I can't say I can relate. Demographically, the circle of people I come in contact with is more prone to being non-theist or hostile to Catholicism. So in that sense, I can't say I see much of what you are talking about. Perhaps in the Bible belt or the heartland?

At any rate, as much as I might bark about in the forum, I do not, in any form support such messages. I have good friends who are still atheist who I wouldn't want to be bristled or hurt by such messages. Not just for their benefit mind you, but because I don't agree with it.

 

[ChristineES]

It can be and it often is. When unwisely placed, faith leads people into serious mistakes.

Although I really wonder what exactly you mean by faith. There is quite some variation around there on the meaning of that word.

My husband loves to tell a story about how a gun doesn't pick itself up and shoot itself. It is true, for the most part, although it would be harder to kill someone with something other than a gun (or would it?).

What I mean is that faith by itself doesn't do anything. Just like a gun laying on a table with no one near it or touching it can't fire. Faith needs a person to use it and the gun needs someone to shoot it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Faith is strongly linked to motivation and to judgement. It is misleading to compare it to inanimate objects.

 

[LuisDantas]

You would think that people who have been called names and been hated all their lives would have a little more compassion for folks with unlike minds.

Speaking for myself, I do have lots of compassion for folks with unlike minds, particularly in the religious sense. It just turns out that my compassion is of the confrontational kind. Caring about people usually involves telling them things they will not much like to hear, IMO. I fully desire to be treated in kind, as well.

Is this about what is right or get even time? Calling a whole group of people evil is just plain wrong.

Indeed, but it is Faith (and a particular, very specific definition of same) that is being called evil. Not any specific person or people.

It is hate mongering plain and simple. Dawkins can kiss my butt!

Nope. People are responsible for what they believe in, and it is completely legitimate to warn them about the downsides, particularly when those reach other people as well (as is indeed the case with faith).

 

[ChristineES]

Faith is strongly linked to motivation and to judgment. It is misleading to compare it to inanimate objects.

As long as we remember that whatever can be used for evil can also be used for good. People aren't good or evil- they just right and wrong decisions. Some of these decisions can be evil- such as raping a child or adult, murder, etc. We can make good decisions, too. Like I fixed dinner for my kids tonight, and little things like that.

If someone kills because their faith believes "tells" them to do it, there are 10 other people who are giving to the poor because their faith "tells" them to do it and so on from there. :shout

 

[waitasec]

I don't see how faith itself could be evil. It couldn't be. It isn't the state of mind, it is what you do with it.

i think so too

are you going to blame the gun or the person that used it....

 

[gnostic]

When the humans first created weapons, not just for hunting wild games, but for killing other people, these weapons weren't built using science. Before science was ever used to create weapons, weapons became increasingly more refined and more effective not because of science, but through what we called "craftsmanship", an artisan trade. The swords and bows were the two weapons that saw millennia of improvements, before they became out of favor.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Speaking for myself, I do have lots of compassion for folks with unlike minds, particularly in the religious sense. It just turns out that my compassion is of the confrontational kind. Caring about people usually involves telling them things they will not much like to hear, IMO. I fully desire to be treated in kind, as well.

Luis, you and I almost always have a different religious or political opinion. The thing is, we always demonstrate mutual respect for one another. When we have to use our basic logic to come to a just and fair staff decision, I cannot think of one time where we have disagreed.

I believe you and I are the perfect example of why different people can work together for the common good. I believe we both demonstrate genuine compassion for others. I believe we both would rise for one another if injustice reared it's evil head and threatened one of us.

That said, blind faith in some religions is traditional. It has been handed down from father to son or mother to daughter for hundreds of years. The current generation is not going to let this tradition or their religion die.

At the same time, people who live by the old ways need to coexist with the modern world and be responsible citizens and treat others with respect.

No group of people should suffer because of my belief. No basic rights should be withheld from any group of people who live or think differently than me.

At the same time, just because a person chooses to believe in the old ways of blind faith, they should not be considered evil just because they are different or not as hip to our ever changing world that we all live in.

Blind faith is not evil, intolerance is.

Indeed, but it is Faith (and a particular, very specific definition of same) that is being called evil. Not any specific person or people.

faith in it's self is not evil, trying to convert people against their will to a different way of thinking might possibly be however. You might demonstrate your compassion by confronting people of faith, but if you try to convert them to another way of thinking, you could quite possibly end a religion that has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. If that is your goal, would it be acceptable for them to try and convert you as well?

Nope. People are responsible for what they believe in, and it is completely legitimate to warn them about the downsides, particularly when those reach other people as well (as is indeed the case with faith).

If one faith or thought pattern is affecting another person's quality of life, then I agree with you. Just remember the door swings both ways.

 

[Magic Man]

You would think that people who have been called names and been hated all their lives would have a little more compassion for folks with unlike minds. Is this about what is right or get even time? Calling a whole group of people evil is just plain wrong.

It is hate mongering plain and simple. Dawkins can kiss my butt!

Did I miss something? Where did anyone call a whole group of people evil? I thought the only thing that was called evil here was faith.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Did I miss something? Where did anyone call a whole group of people evil? I thought the only thing that was called evil here was faith.

Excuse me for taking this discussion to the next logical step.

I know of many church congregations who subscribe to blind faith. Actually it is a requirement. It is traditional even. To say their faith is evil is to condem them as a group as well as all the people who came before them.