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Why faith is evil

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
But in fact there is lots of evidence that there is no God, at least, not your God, who clearly does not exist.

Further, it not reasonable to behave as if a myriad of possible imaginary entities existed, on the off chance that one of them does. Rather the burden is on the assertion that something does exist to provide evidence that it does. Otherwise no one could get out of bed in the morning, for fear you might be trampling invisible baby kittens hiding under your bed.
No, I don't believe an "invisible sky-daddy" exists, in the way pop religion presents the belief. But I'm interested to know what the irrefutable evidence is that there is no Deity?

To define Deity as "your God" is dicey, because everyone has a slightly different concept. At least for me, I don't behave "as if an imaginary entity exists." I behave in accordance with a world view that perceives creation in theological terms. For me, God isn't a matter of "real" or "imaginary," "existent" or "non-existent."

That being said, it is reasonable to operate from a standpoint of theology, if that's how I'm geared to understand the universe. Since we cannot fully grasp God, the language and images we use to talk about God are, necessarily, limited.
 

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
I don't think that's what Auto or Dawkins was saying.

They said that faith is evil, not the person.

That's a HUGE difference.

"That's a HUGE difference."

You only see a difference, because you think you have evidence for God. I however don't think you or anyone has evidence for gods; which I am sure is the position of many of my fellow atheist.
 
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Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
"That's a HUGE difference."

You only see a difference, because you think you have evidence for God. I however don't think you or anyone has evidence for gods; which I am sure is the position of many of my fellow atheist.
...:areyoucra...

You see the people that have faith as evil?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
what stuck out for me was this line...
"And the reason that's dangerous is that it justifies essentially anything."

faith, the belief in something unseen is a curious thing.
it drives people to do wonderful things and at the time, the most horrid of all things...
it isn't faith, i think it's the lack of faith people have in themselves
if people were have faith in themselves, then there would be no need to control, there would be no doubt and fear

Are you saying that faith is never dangerous?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
This is why secular fundamentalist like Dawkins drive me nuts. His brush is wide and instead of engaging individual issues of people of faith, he'd rather just call it all evil.

It really is pathetic...

It may be unfair and a bit generalizing, but it is hardly pathetic, and I would need clarification on what you mean by calling him fundamentalist. By the standard definition of the word it is hard to think of Dawkins as such. He is a bit intolerant, that is all.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Thus showing that the term "evil" is far to subjective to be worth anything outside eliciting an emotional reaction.
It also has worth as an expression of emotional reaction, as Dawkins used it in the quote.

But I agree, perhaps that's all it's worth.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I think this us vs. them mentality is the immoral position. This idea that someone is evil simply because they do or do not believe in gods, is ridiculous.

Not somebody, something--the act of accepting as true, and acting on that belief, without sufficient evidence to justify it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It may be unfair and a bit generalizing, but it is hardly pathetic, and I would need clarification on what you mean by calling him fundamentalist. By the standard definition of the word it is hard to think of Dawkins as such. He is a bit intolerant, that is all.
In that regard, I think that there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to atheism.

Here's Dawkins' quote from the OP, only re-jigged to be in favour of faith instead of against it:

I think there's something very good about faith, where faith means believing in something in the absence of evidence, and actually taking pride in believing in something in the absence of evidence. And the reason that's good is that it justifies essentially anything. If you're taught in your holy book or by your priest that the starving should be fed or the sick should be healed -- anybody who is in need should be cared for -- that clearly is good. And people don't have to justify it because it's their faith. They don't have to say, "Well, here's a very good reason for this." All they need to say is, "That's what my faith says." And we're all expected to back off and respect that. Whether or not we're actually faithful ourselves, we've been brought up to respect faith and to regard it as something that should not be challenged. And that can have extremely good consequences. The consequences it's had historically -- charities, hospitals, right up to the present time where you have missionaries feeding the poor and preaching the Gospel in the Third World -- all in the name of faith.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if that was given as part of the homily/sermon in an Anglican church, the worst that people would say about it was that it was kinda boring. But when someone speaks out against faith instead of in favour of it, suddenly it's intolerant.

IMO, if Richard Dawkins is an intolerant "fundie", then so is the most liberal and benign of Christian preachers, because they're the same distance away from the neutral middle point. The only thing that makes it seem otherwise is the fact that we're more accustomed to people speaking positively of religion.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
It may be unfair and a bit generalizing, but it is hardly pathetic, and I would need clarification on what you mean by calling him fundamentalist. By the standard definition of the word it is hard to think of Dawkins as such. He is a bit intolerant, that is all.
Just a tinsy bit...yes. By the standard definition? I must be mistaking his vitriol feelings toward faith and religion as an honest venture to seek for answers.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
That's a great quote, and really sums up the problem with faith. Of course calling faith "evil" is being intentionally provocative, but that's the idea. I wouldn't call it evil, just wrong and dangerous. The worst part is, as he says, believing in something without evidence and indeed in the face of counterevidence is seen as a virtue. The virtue is believing a conclusion you came to through rational thought, not because an old book said it.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
In that regard, I think that there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to atheism.

Here's Dawkins' quote from the OP, only re-jigged to be in favour of faith instead of against it:

I think there's something very good about faith, where faith means believing in something in the absence of evidence, and actually taking pride in believing in something in the absence of evidence. And the reason that's good is that it justifies essentially anything. If you're taught in your holy book or by your priest that the starving should be fed or the sick should be healed -- anybody who is in need should be cared for -- that clearly is good. And people don't have to justify it because it's their faith. They don't have to say, "Well, here's a very good reason for this." All they need to say is, "That's what my faith says." And we're all expected to back off and respect that. Whether or not we're actually faithful ourselves, we've been brought up to respect faith and to regard it as something that should not be challenged. And that can have extremely good consequences. The consequences it's had historically -- charities, hospitals, right up to the present time where you have missionaries feeding the poor and preaching the Gospel in the Third World -- all in the name of faith.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if that was given as part of the homily/sermon in an Anglican church, the worst that people would say about it was that it was kinda boring. But when someone speaks out against faith instead of in favour of it, suddenly it's intolerant.

IMO, if Richard Dawkins is an intolerant "fundie", then so is the most liberal and benign of Christian preachers, because they're the same distance away from the neutral middle point. The only thing that makes it seem otherwise is the fact that we're more accustomed to people speaking positively of religion.
I'd bet dollars to crispy cream donuts that this happens more in the non-theist camp with regard to when religious figures say something similar.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I don't see how faith itself could be evil. It couldn't be. It isn't the state of mind, it is what you do with it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I'd bet dollars to crispy cream donuts that this happens more in the non-theist camp with regard to when religious figures say something similar.
In terms of actual frequency? Probably.

I think if you were bombarded with anti-religious messages as much as the average non-theist gets pro-religious ones, you'd start to bristle, too.

When was the last time you attended a sporting event or a family dinner that started off with a little message speaking against what you believe?
 
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