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Why fight over religion?

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!
Agree with you on this :) Even I still belong under the Theravada Buddhist tradition I would say I am no longer that bound to doctrines as I used to be
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
It's not the religion that people fight over, it's the power that comes with it.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!

...people fight, even to death, over doctrine?
giphy.gif


In our modern times, people still fight to the death over religion
Examples of which are:
Source: Religious war - Wikipedia

Religious conflict in the modern period
Israeli–Palestinian conflict

The Israeli–Palestinian conflict can be viewed primarily as an ethnic conflict between two parties where one party is most often portrayed as a singular ethno-religious group consisting only of the Jewish majority and ignores non-Jewish minority Israeli citizens who at varying levels support a Zionist state, especially the Druze and Circassians who for example volunteer in higher numbers for IDF combat service and are represented in the Israeli parliament in greater percentages than Israeli Jews are[42][43] as well as Israeli Arabs, Samaritans,[44] various other Christians, and Negev Bedouin;[45] the other party is sometimes presented as an ethnic group which is multi-religious (although most numerously consisting of Muslims, then Christians, then other religious groups up to and including Samaritans and even Jews). Yet despite the multi-religious composition of both of the parties in the conflict, elements on both sides often view it as a religious war between Jews and Muslims. In 1929, religious tensions between Muslim and Jewish Palestinians over Jews praying at the Wailing Wall led to the 1929 Palestine riots[46] including the Hebron and Safed ethnic cleansings of Jews.


Pakistan and India
The All India Muslim League (AIML) was formed in Dhaka in 1906 by Muslims who were suspicious of the Hindu-majority Indian National Congress. They complained that Muslim members did not have the same rights as Hindu members. A number of different scenarios were proposed at various times.This was fuelled by the British policy of "Divide and Rule", which they tried to bring upon every political situation. Among the first to make the demand for a separate state was the writer/philosopher Allama Iqbal, who, in his presidential address to the 1930 convention of the Muslim League said that a separate nation for Muslims was essential in an otherwise Hindu-dominated subcontinent.

Abyssinia – Somalia

Abyssinian–Adal war broke out in the Horn of Africa after the arrival of the Portuguese Empire in the region.
The Abyssinian–Adal war was a military conflict between the Abyssinians and the Adal Sultanate from 1529 until 1559. The Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi (nicknamed Gurey in Somali and Gragn in Amharic (ግራኝ Graññ), both meaning "the left-handed") came close to extinguishing the ancient realm of Abyssinia, and forcibly converting all of its surviving subjects to Islam. The intervention of the European Cristóvão da Gama, son of the famous navigator Vasco da Gama, attempted to help to prevent this outcome, but he was killed by al-Ghazi. However, both polities exhausted their resources and manpower in this conflict, allowing the northward migration of the Oromo into their present homelands to the north and west of Addis Ababa.[55] Many historians trace the origins of hostility between Somalia and Ethiopia to this war.[56] Some historians also argue that this conflict proved, through their use on both sides, the value of firearms such as the matchlock musket, cannons, and the arquebus over traditional weapons.[57]

Nigerian conflict

In the 1980s, serious outbreaks between Christians and Muslims occurred in Kafanchan in southern Kaduna State in a border area between the two religions.


Buddhist uprising

In a country where the Buddhist majority was estimated to be between 70 and 90 percent, Diem ruled with a strong religious bias. As a member of the Catholic Vietnamese minority, he pursued pro-Catholic policies that antagonized many Buddhists.

Chinese conflict
Some Hui criticize Uyghur separatism, and generally do not want to get involved in conflicts in other countries over Islam for fear of being perceived as radical.[73] Hui and Uyghur live apart from each other, praying separately and attending different mosques.[74]

Lebanese Civil War

There is no consensus among scholars on what triggered the Lebanese Civil War. However, the militarization of the Palestinian refugee population, with the arrival of the PLO guerrilla forces did spark an arms race amongst the different Lebanese political factions. However the conflict played out along three religious lines, Sunni Muslim, Christian Lebanese and Shiite Muslim, Druze are considered among Shiite Muslims.

Yugoslav Wars

The Croatian War (1991–95) and Bosnian War (1992–95), have been viewed of as religious wars between the Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim populations of former Yugoslavia, that is, Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks.[75][76] Traditional religious symbols were used during the wars.[77] Notably, foreign Muslim volunteers came to Bosnia to wage jihad ("jihad" doesn’t mean "holy war", it means "struggle"), and were thus known as "Bosnian mujahideen".

Sudanese Civil War
The Second Sudanese Civil War from 1983 to 2005 have describe the conflict as an ethnoreligious one where the Muslim central government's pursuits to impose sharia law on non-Muslim southerners led to violence, and eventually to the civil war. The war resulted in the independence of South Sudan six years after the war ended. Sudan is Muslim and South Sudan is Christian.[78][79][80][81]

upload_2019-9-29_23-3-55.jpeg


I believe Buddhist and Hindus have an on-going religious war of their own right now and I do believe they are not part of the Abrahamic religions.

Now what can be learned from this?
The problem is not about religion but man's attitude toward his neighbor.
Remove the religion aspect and people would still find another reason to kill over
Racism, money, greed, or just the fun of it.


giphy.gif
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
...people fight, even to death, over doctrine?
giphy.gif


In our modern times, people still fight to the death over religion
Examples of which are:
Source: Religious war - Wikipedia

Religious conflict in the modern period
Israeli–Palestinian conflict

The Israeli–Palestinian conflict can be viewed primarily as an ethnic conflict between two parties where one party is most often portrayed as a singular ethno-religious group consisting only of the Jewish majority and ignores non-Jewish minority Israeli citizens who at varying levels support a Zionist state, especially the Druze and Circassians who for example volunteer in higher numbers for IDF combat service and are represented in the Israeli parliament in greater percentages than Israeli Jews are[42][43] as well as Israeli Arabs, Samaritans,[44] various other Christians, and Negev Bedouin;[45] the other party is sometimes presented as an ethnic group which is multi-religious (although most numerously consisting of Muslims, then Christians, then other religious groups up to and including Samaritans and even Jews). Yet despite the multi-religious composition of both of the parties in the conflict, elements on both sides often view it as a religious war between Jews and Muslims. In 1929, religious tensions between Muslim and Jewish Palestinians over Jews praying at the Wailing Wall led to the 1929 Palestine riots[46] including the Hebron and Safed ethnic cleansings of Jews.


Pakistan and India
The All India Muslim League (AIML) was formed in Dhaka in 1906 by Muslims who were suspicious of the Hindu-majority Indian National Congress. They complained that Muslim members did not have the same rights as Hindu members. A number of different scenarios were proposed at various times.This was fuelled by the British policy of "Divide and Rule", which they tried to bring upon every political situation. Among the first to make the demand for a separate state was the writer/philosopher Allama Iqbal, who, in his presidential address to the 1930 convention of the Muslim League said that a separate nation for Muslims was essential in an otherwise Hindu-dominated subcontinent.

Abyssinia – Somalia

Abyssinian–Adal war broke out in the Horn of Africa after the arrival of the Portuguese Empire in the region.
The Abyssinian–Adal war was a military conflict between the Abyssinians and the Adal Sultanate from 1529 until 1559. The Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi (nicknamed Gurey in Somali and Gragn in Amharic (ግራኝ Graññ), both meaning "the left-handed") came close to extinguishing the ancient realm of Abyssinia, and forcibly converting all of its surviving subjects to Islam. The intervention of the European Cristóvão da Gama, son of the famous navigator Vasco da Gama, attempted to help to prevent this outcome, but he was killed by al-Ghazi. However, both polities exhausted their resources and manpower in this conflict, allowing the northward migration of the Oromo into their present homelands to the north and west of Addis Ababa.[55] Many historians trace the origins of hostility between Somalia and Ethiopia to this war.[56] Some historians also argue that this conflict proved, through their use on both sides, the value of firearms such as the matchlock musket, cannons, and the arquebus over traditional weapons.[57]

Nigerian conflict

In the 1980s, serious outbreaks between Christians and Muslims occurred in Kafanchan in southern Kaduna State in a border area between the two religions.


Buddhist uprising

In a country where the Buddhist majority was estimated to be between 70 and 90 percent, Diem ruled with a strong religious bias. As a member of the Catholic Vietnamese minority, he pursued pro-Catholic policies that antagonized many Buddhists.

Chinese conflict
Some Hui criticize Uyghur separatism, and generally do not want to get involved in conflicts in other countries over Islam for fear of being perceived as radical.[73] Hui and Uyghur live apart from each other, praying separately and attending different mosques.[74]

Lebanese Civil War

There is no consensus among scholars on what triggered the Lebanese Civil War. However, the militarization of the Palestinian refugee population, with the arrival of the PLO guerrilla forces did spark an arms race amongst the different Lebanese political factions. However the conflict played out along three religious lines, Sunni Muslim, Christian Lebanese and Shiite Muslim, Druze are considered among Shiite Muslims.

Yugoslav Wars

The Croatian War (1991–95) and Bosnian War (1992–95), have been viewed of as religious wars between the Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim populations of former Yugoslavia, that is, Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks.[75][76] Traditional religious symbols were used during the wars.[77] Notably, foreign Muslim volunteers came to Bosnia to wage jihad ("jihad" doesn’t mean "holy war", it means "struggle"), and were thus known as "Bosnian mujahideen".

Sudanese Civil War
The Second Sudanese Civil War from 1983 to 2005 have describe the conflict as an ethnoreligious one where the Muslim central government's pursuits to impose sharia law on non-Muslim southerners led to violence, and eventually to the civil war. The war resulted in the independence of South Sudan six years after the war ended. Sudan is Muslim and South Sudan is Christian.[78][79][80][81]

View attachment 33303

I believe Buddhist and Hindus have an on-going religious war of their own right now and I do believe they are not part of the Abrahamic religions.

Now what can be learned from this?
The problem is not about religion but man's attitude toward his neighbor.
Remove the religion aspect and people would still find another reason to kill over
Racism, money, greed, or just the fun of it.


giphy.gif
Why would Buddhists fight Hindus? If a Buddhist fight someone he or she has not understood the dharma :)
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe Buddhist and Hindus have an on-going religious war of their own right now and I do believe they are not part of the Abrahamic religions.

You got us. I was just in the process of polishing up the warhead I've been working on so I can attach it to a cruise missile and launch it in the direction of Norway.

That @Amanaki guy has me fed up with his pacifism and religious tolerance! Those dang peaceful Buddhists!! :mad::mad::mad:
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Why would Buddhists fight Hindus? If a Buddhist fight someone he or she has not understood the dharma :)

Sometimes these doctrines are just good as printed on its paper.
But do people practice?
Really practice?
Why would Buddhist fight Hindus? should be rephrased to
Why would Buddhist fight Muslims?

giphy.gif


I'm sure you heard in the news what happening around the world
If not then probably you should watch some videos below



 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Sometimes these doctrines are just good as printed on its paper.
But do people practice?
Really practice?
Why would Buddhist fight Hindus? should be rephrased to
Why would Buddhist fight Muslims?

giphy.gif


I'm sure you heard in the news what happening around the world
If not then probably you should watch some videos below



A practicing Buddhist should not fight anyone :) Discussion is good, but never arguing harshly toward others. And of someone get angry at us we are advised to show them compassion and love and kindness.
So those who do not do it do not follow dharma fully.
But we all fail from time to time
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!
Fighting is because Gross misunderstanding spiritual side of mentioned religions, at some point non-spiritual elements converted understanding into 'Santa Claus" mode.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!
That is an interesting question.

It is my understanding that most so-called "religiously"-motivated conflicts are only rarely perceived as such by the involved parties, with one or two notable exceptions that really ought to spring to mind even without my naming them.

There are a few typical scenarios, most of which persist due to competing perspectives and narratives that provide what amounts in law terms to plausible deniability.

- Victimization. Often coupled with promises of vindication of past misdeeds or suffering, real or legendary. The narrative portrays violent actions as necessary defense against dangerous aggressors or even as people that "just can't be trusted". A favorite mainstay of the Abrahamics, who seem to perceive humanity as a whole as a considerably more dangerous and hopeless than most other groups do.

- Competition for resources. Land is a very traditional one, but there are also food and water, political and linguistic influence, access to education, and perhaps a few others as well. This is a particularly tricky one to defuse, because it is usually tied to demographic growth and, very often, to utter inconsequential approaches to same. It is also a very explosive one, for people tend to lose honor and reason rather quickly when they feel threatened, when given absurd promises by populists, nationalists and other manipulators, and certainly when they are starving.

- Promises fulfilled. This one is indeed doctrinary in nature, and at the very bottom of the barrel far as fairness is concerned. Yet it is also often very appealling, although I don't think that it can fairly be called "religious".
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
Why would Buddhist fight Hindus? should be rephrased to
Why would Buddhist fight Muslims?

Sorry, but Muslims have traditionally been the aggressors. This dates back to the Muhgal Empire when the Muslims conquered and colonized India. Defending one's homeland and culture is hardly picking a fight.

But please, tell us more about the ongoing Buddhist/Hindu conflicts you referenced in post #5 of this thread.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
You got us. I was just in the process of polishing up the warhead I've been working on so I can attach it to a cruise missile and launch it in the direction of Norway.

That @Amanaki guy has me fed up with his pacifism and religious tolerance! Those dang peaceful Buddhists!! :mad::mad::mad:

giphy.gif


Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists
I don't think there is such thing in their hearts true pacifism and religious tolerance.
There is always a cause for trouble, conflict and war.




As long as people are people - we are all prone to sin.
It does not matter if a person believes in a religion or not.
Therefore LETS GET REAL Buddhist are not that special.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
As long as people are people - we are all prone to sin.

I'll thank you to not speak for me or include me your conceptualization of an inherent evil in mankind. My worldview doesn't include a concept of "sin."


It does not matter if a person believes in a religion or not.

Quite true. There are atheists out there that are every bit as peaceful and tolerant as any religious person.

Therefore LETS GET REAL Buddhist are not that special.

Special? Who said anything about special?

Dharmic religions are non-proselytizing and tend to be more tolerant of beliefs outside their religions. You can choose to believe that or not. But the evidence speaks for itself.

I'll also point out here that this is not a debate forum. Please bear this in mind as you proceed.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Sorry, but Muslims have traditionally been the aggressors. This dates back to the Muhgal Empire when the Muslims conquered and colonized India. Defending one's homeland and culture is hardly picking a fight.
It goes back much further, as a matter of fact. And it is complicated by a very well consolidated narrative that Islaam is targeted by dangeous people and apparently always was, and therefore has an unavoidable need to defend itself. Often preemptively, or in submission to the judgement of the Qur'an or of some "religious" authority.

In truth, Islaam is a very serious threat to the very idea of self-criticism.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
This is about Thailand's monks - tell them to practice their religion!
Please.




On going Buddhist conflict
Location: Myanmar [formerly known as Burma]


On going Hindu conflict
Location: India


You insist that there is a Hindu/Buddhist conflict, but continue to post conflicts between Hindus or Buddhists and Muslims.

You said in post #5 that there is an ongoing religious war between Hindus and Buddhists. Please provide some examples. Or even one.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
This is about Thailand's monks - tell them to practice their religion!
Please.




On going Buddhist conflict
Location: Myanmar [formerly known as Burma]


On going Hindu conflict
Location: India


You will always be able to find those who do wrong within Buddhism too, As you say we are people too. But for most of us we try to do our best to not harm anyone with words, actions or thoughts. And I have no intention to "convince" you about that Buddhism would be right for you, you gave the answer your self. from your posts, it is clear that you only see your own spiritual path as the right one (not a problem for me).

As a buddhist it hurt to see other Buddhists who harm other people or animals for their own gaining of power or land, they do not follow true dharma when they do this.
There is no need to hate or become evil toward others just because they would treat me poorly.
 
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