Why fight over religion?

[paarsurrey]

Nobody is perfect - no matter what religion.
Now there is a perfect thing - a religion based on the truth.

"Now there is a perfect thing - a religion based on the truth"

Yes, the truthful religion creates no problems but it is solution to the problems of the world.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

They conquered India half a millennium before the Mughal Empire

Yes, the Muslims were there much before the Mughal empire.
The empires had nothing to do with Quran/Islam/Muhammad, they were not the representatives of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

I recognize my self in your story of the person seeking

Nice young man. Not sure if he'll be back though. It can be quite the mental challenge, that shift of paradigms. There's often some rather hard-wired stuff in the subconscious mind.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Nice young man. Not sure if he'll be back though. It can be quite the mental challenge, that shift of paradigms. There's often some rather hard-wired stuff in the subconscious mind.

Yes it take time and effort to begin a new journey within a new faith

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't say your religion is wrong, Nor do I have any interest in claiming Buddhism is better than other true religions when I was younger Buddhism was the spiritual path I chose to walk, But anyone who wish to follow something different is, of course, good too.

Similarly for me.

I don't say your religion/no-religion is necessarily wrong. Nor do I have to forcefully spread Islam/Quran/Muhammad over other religions/no-religions. I follow Islam/Quran/Muhammad, but anyone who is not convinced to follow it and wants something different has the right to co-exit peacefully . Right, please?

Regards
______________
[109:1]بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ﴿۱﴾
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[109:2]قُلۡ یٰۤاَیُّہَا الۡکٰفِرُوۡنَ ۙ﴿۲﴾
Say, ‘O ye disbelievers!
[109:3]لَاۤ اَعۡبُدُ مَا تَعۡبُدُوۡنَ ۙ﴿۳﴾
‘I worship not that which you worship;
[109:4]وَ لَاۤ اَنۡتُمۡ عٰبِدُوۡنَ مَاۤ اَعۡبُدُ ۚ﴿۴﴾
‘Nor worship you what I worship.
[109:5]وَ لَاۤ اَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدۡتُّمۡ ۙ﴿۵﴾
‘And I am not going to worship that which you worship;
[109:6]وَ لَاۤ اَنۡتُمۡ عٰبِدُوۡنَ مَاۤ اَعۡبُدُ ؕ﴿۶﴾
‘Nor will you worship what I worship.
[109:7]لَکُمۡ دِیۡنُکُمۡ وَلِیَ دِیۡنِ ٪﴿۷﴾
‘For you your religion, and for me my religion.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 109: Al-Kafirun

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes it take time and effort to begin a new journey within a new faith

Sometimes better not to attempt it. When friends and I got into yoga and meditation 45 years ago (we were just kids) one friend was a strong Catholic. She stayed with it for about 4 months, but then backed off because she knew it would just cause confusion. Nobody should be in the business of causing confusion. That's a major reason why I'm so against proselytising.

"Here, have a confusion pill." Not my kind of people.

 

[paarsurrey]

There are no war between Hindus and Buddhists - if it happened maybe its a long time ago

But a long time ago doesn't mean it never happened:

"The Kalinga War (ended c. 262 BCE)[1] was fought in what is now India between the Maurya Empire under Ashoka and King of Raja Anantha of the state of Kalinga, an independent feudal kingdom located on the east coast, in the present-day state of Odisha and north of Andhra Pradesh . The Kalinga War included one of the largest and bloodiest battles in Indian history.[6][citation needed] Kalinga did not have a king as it was culturally run without any.[7]

This is the only major war Ashoka fought after his accession to the throne. In fact this war marks the close of empire building and military conquests of ancent india that began with Maurya king Bindusara.[8] The bloodshed of this war is said to have prompted Ashoka to adopt Buddhism.
Kalinga War - Wikipedia

Regards

 

[74x12]

Little do you understand that satan has his servants embedded in all religions and in all major organisations of any kind.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's not the religion that people fight over, it's the power that comes with it.

I disagree entirely. People fight over religion for one very important reason -- if there are other religions, and they are accepted by many, many people, then that is an existential threat to the notion that yours is the only "true religion." This is an intolerable notion to many people.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why belong to a religion where people fight, even to death, over doctrine? Any religion worth anything would allow for individual differences because we are not a one-size-fits-all kind of creature. The more I see the two of the four Abrahamic religions fight, the more I am thankful that I no longer belong to any of them. Chill out!

Two of the four? How about three of the four!

This is a little idealistic hope for reconciliation, and may be suited to how some Eastern religions, Humanist movements like the Unitarian Universalists, and the Baha'i Faith view the diversity of beliefs. The more tribal Abrahamic religions Judaism Christianity and Islam are historical adversaries, and not likely resolve their conflict beyond superficial tolerance.

the following is a witness to the long term problem.

Little do you understand that satan has his servants embedded in all religions and in all major organisations of any kind.

 

[MJFlores]

It is very easy to say that, but in reality few can actually achieve what you have suggested.

I can say the doctrins of the churches have blinded Christians from accepting Christ's promised return. Christianity did get it wrong. Jesus the Christ and the Bible are not wrong.

Now you are able to fulfil your pledge.

Regards Tony

On the contrary, I have a biblical basis of placing my faith on the line.
And I have a basis from the Bible:

2 Corinthians 13:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not so that people will see that we have stood the test but so that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.

Further how many denominations does "Christianity" have?
More than 34,000 - mainly categorized as Catholics and Protestant
My faith is neither Catholic or Protestant
Very independent and our doctrines are entirely based on the Bible
The church I belong to holds a couple of Guinness Book of World Records
and have built several houses of worship around the world

 

[paarsurrey]

There are no war between Hindus and Buddhists - if it happened maybe its a long time ago

However, this is what I found out

Revista de Estudos da Religiãosetembro / 2007 / pp. 157-164ISSN 1677-1222From which moment / period in time the Buddhist-Hindu encounter became manifest and what were the geographical and socio-cultural circumstances under which early encounters occurred?When emperor Ashoka (3rd century BCE) became a powerful patron of Buddhism, he prohibited the killing of animals. This was a severe blow against Brahmanism, because theritual sacrifice of animals was prescribed in the Vedas and formed a major part of the Brahmins’ livelihood. This made it very clear to the Brahmins that a state governed by Buddhists principles would hardly leave any space for them. Buddhism was now perceived not only as an intellectual rival but as a serious threat. And, under Ashoka – with his royal support – Buddhism rapidly spread within and outside the borders of his empire. Hence it is not surprising that after Ashoka’s Maurya dynasty (2nd century BCE) we hear of fierce persecutions of Buddhism in India, inspired by Brahmanical circles.

https://www.pucsp.br/rever/rv3_2007/f_usarski2_en.pdf

Maybe I was misunderstood in this statement.

Which should have been Buddhist have an on going religious war on their own
and the Hindus have an on going religious war on their own too

And to clarify things, I did not use "each other" or "against each other"

"Buddhist have an on going religious war on their own"
"Hindus have an on going religious war on their own too"

Does one mean that Buddhists are fighting with other Buddhist denomination/s. And Hindus are fighting with other Hindu denomination/s.
Please clear these two points separately. Right, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

There are no war between Hindus and Buddhists - if it happened maybe its a long time ago

However, this is what I found out

Revista de Estudos da Religiãosetembro / 2007 / pp. 157-164ISSN 1677-1222From which moment / period in time the Buddhist-Hindu encounter became manifest and what were the geographical and socio-cultural circumstances under which early encounters occurred?When emperor Ashoka (3rd century BCE) became a powerful patron of Buddhism, he prohibited the killing of animals. This was a severe blow against Brahmanism, because theritual sacrifice of animals was prescribed in the Vedas and formed a major part of the Brahmins’ livelihood. This made it very clear to the Brahmins that a state governed by Buddhists principles would hardly leave any space for them. Buddhism was now perceived not only as an intellectual rival but as a serious threat. And, under Ashoka – with his royal support – Buddhism rapidly spread within and outside the borders of his empire. Hence it is not surprising that after Ashoka’s Maurya dynasty (2nd century BCE) we hear of fierce persecutions of Buddhism in India, inspired by Brahmanical circles.

Maybe I was misunderstood in this statement.

Which should have been Buddhist have an on going religious war on their own
and the Hindus have an on going religious war on their own too

And to clarify things, I did not use "each other" or "against each other"

"Hence it is not surprising that after Ashoka’s Maurya dynasty (2nd century BCE) we hear of fierce persecutions of Buddhism in India,inspired by Brahmanical circles.".

So, Buddhism had to go out of India, facing near extinction in India, to Mayanmur (Burma) and to its East in China, Vietnam, Cambodia etc, and to Shiri Lanka in South West:
"The decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent refers to a gradual process of dwindling and replacement of Buddhism in India, which ended around the 12th century.[1][2] According to Lars Fogelin, this was "not a singular event, with a singular cause; it was a centuries-long process."[3]

The decline of Buddhism has been attributed to various factors, especially the regionalisation of India after the end of the Gupta Empire (320–650 CE), which led to the loss of patronage and donations as Indian dynasties turned to the services of Hindu Brahmins."
Decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent - Wikipedia

Right, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Discussing religion is not fighting
Debating religion is not fighting
Talking is not fighting
However, maybe this one is.....

We can talk about religion provided no one pulls a gun or something
Because when that happens, it does not make sense.

"Discussing religion is not fighting
Debating religion is not fighting
Talking is not fighting"
"We can talk about religion provided no one pulls a gun or something
Because when that happens, it does not make sense."

Very truly said.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

But for me, I welcome a person who says my religion is wrong.
Because if my religion is wrong and someone points out that it is fake
I wouldn't want to stay any minute longer
To stay would mean I would be wasting my time, energy and money
over a fake religion.

I took on a religion because it is my insurance policy
My assurance with God that on the day when He orders
His Son back, I will be saved

And while this world keeps on turning, I would pray
without doubting, all my problems to God and ask for the things that I need
in the name of His Son, my Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ

"But for me, I welcome a person who says my religion is wrong.
Because if my religion is wrong and someone points out that it is fake
I wouldn't want to stay any minute longer
To stay would mean I would be wasting my time, energy and money
over a fake religion."

My position is the same as one has expressed and I have colored in magenta.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The church I belong to holds a couple of Guinness Book of World Records
and have built several houses of worship around the world

That is the point I was making.

I wish the Christians well and happy always.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Unfortunately, there have been cases where Buddhist communities have done immoral action toward others yes. But if we look at the teachings then it says clearly that we should not take part in any harmful action, words or thoughts of others. But there are many who are by culture born into Buddhism and thereby is seen as true Buddhists, this is not the case. because to be a true Buddhist one should understand the 4 noble truths and be guided by the 8 folded paths toward a more righteous way of life.

But looking at the world today more and more people become cultural attached to religion than actually practicing it. That leads to faults similar to what we discuss here

My position also resembles to yours:

"Unfortunately, there have been cases where Muslim communities have done immoral action toward others yes. But if we look at the teachings as mentioned in Islam/Quran/Muhammad then it says clearly that we should not take part in any aggressive harmful action with words or with hand to others unless others are out to make us extinct and deny us the right of co-existence. But there are many who are by culture born into Muslims and thereby is seen as true Muslims, this is not the case. because to be a true follower of Islam/Quran/Muhammad one should understand the 6 Articles of Faith* + 5 Five Pillars of Islam** toward a more righteous way of life.
But looking at the world today more and more people become cultural attached to religion than actually practicing it. That leads to faults similar to what we discuss here"

Right, please?

Regards
_____________
*Articles of Faith in Islam:

• Unity of God
• His Angels
• His Books
• His Prophets
• The Last Day
• Divine Decree

**Five Pillars of Islam

• Kalima
• Prayer
• Fasting
• Zakaat
• Hajj

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Official website

 

[paarsurrey]

Debating doctrine is good and helps people to refine their understanding. As long as people approach discussions in that light, there is no problem. And, as you say, we shouldn't expect everyone to have the exact same understanding and interpretation of things - that is quite unreasonable.

Some people take things too far - but they aren't acting in accordance with the teachings of Judaism/Christianity.

"Some people take things too far - but they aren't acting in accordance with the teachings of Judaism/Christianity"
+Islam.
No founder of a revealed religion* ever gave teachings to fight with others aggressively. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
*Buddha, Krishna,Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Agree with you on this Even I still belong under the Theravada Buddhist tradition I would say I am no longer that bound to doctrines as I used to be

I really respect Buddhism. Flirted with it for a while. I may look into it again.

 

[paarsurrey]

The doctrines that acknowledge Ibrahim as a prophet seem to me to have a remarkably bad opinion of humankind, to the point that it often looks like their adherents are expected to actually feel shame for simply existing, and to keep expecting some conception of Ibrahim's God to chastise or command them.

Even this post is not clear to me. What is wrong in believing that Abraham/Ibrahim was a righteous messenger/prophet of G-d. How does it harm the Buddhists or Zoroastrians etc, please.

Unless one does not express oneself clearly, I can't give my understanding to it, please.

Regards