Why Hadith can NOT be part of Islam

[Aamer]

When I tell Muslims that I don't believe Hadith are part of Islam, they think I'm crazy. But if you look at the evidence, I think it's quite logical. So let's forget what scholars and clergy say and look at Gods words to see both sides of the argument.

Justification for Hadith in Quran: While there is no direct commandment in Quran to create a set of books to add to Gods laws, the Quran does in many places say: "Obey God and his messenger." To me this does not mean obey God and Bukhari. Bukhari was not a messenger and Prophet Muhammad did not write or compile the Hadith. The Hadith were compiled 250+ years after the death of Muhammad. He didn't follow Bukhari, only Quran. They weren't authorized by God or Prophet Muhammad. Let's look at these verses to see what God means by "obey the messenger":

[5:92] Obey God and obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away then know that the SOLE DUTY of the messenger is to deliver the message clearly.

[64:12] Obey God and obey the messenger. If you turn away, then it is only required of Our messenger to deliver clearly.

So it is clear from these verses that: 1. We must obey the messenger. 2. The messengers sole duty is to deliver the message.

1+2= Obey the message that the messenger delivered. That message can only be Quran.

Muslims have taken "Obey the messenger" to mean eat dates because the prophet liked dates and to brush your teeth with miswak and ride a camel because the Prophet did. How does this have anything to do with worshipping God?

The other verse often used to justify the creation of Hadith is 59:7. But this verse is about distribution of wealth and spoils of war and has nothing to do with adding new religious laws.

Ok let's look at evidence in Quran AGAINST adding Hadith books or any other source to the word of God:

[6:114] "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?" Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[6:116] If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Is Hadith not conjecture and guessing?

[25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

[77:50] So in what hadith after this will they believe?

[17:73] They nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!

[53:23] These are but names/attributes that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and wishful thinking, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.

[16:89] The day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. We have sent down to you the book as a clarification for all things, a guide, mercy and good tidings for those who have peacefully surrendered.

[45:6] These are God's signs that We recite to you with truth. Then in what hadith after God and his verses will they believe?

[31:6] Among the people, there are those who accept baseless hadiths to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.

So the evidence against Hadith in Quran is there, whether the scholars like it or not. What about Sunnah you may ask. Yes the word "Sunnah" is used in the Quran a few times. But never used for the Sunnah of Muhammad. Only the Sunnah of God. Here's an example:

[33:62] This is God's Sunnah with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's Sunnah.

I am leaving the words Hadith and Sunnah in Arabic to make a point. But you can go look up the verses. They are in there. Another verse used to justify Hadith and Sunnah is this one:

[2:231] ....Do not take God's signs lightly; remember God's blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of AL KITAAB (the book) and AL HIKMAH (the wisdom), He warns you with it. Be conscientious of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things.

But as you can see the word Sunnah is not used here. The word Hikmah is used. Hikmah means wisdom, not Sunnah. This has nothing to do with following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad.

If you're with me so far, you're probably wondering... Ok, but how can you pray Salat without Hadith? My question to you is: How do you pray Salat WITH Hadith? I've never met one person who learned Salat by opening a Hadith book. And go ahead and try. Show me one Hadith which tells you step by step, start to finish, how to pray Salat. And there are plenty of Hadith on Salat but they're unclear and contradictory. That's why so many people pray so many different ways. Personally I learned when my uncle taught me, not from opening Bukhari. How did you learn?

So what does Quran say about Salat? There are five things that entail Quranic Salat. I can find the verses later if you're interested. It's all in Quran: 1. To do Wudu first (ablution) 2. To face the Qibla 3. To commemorate God alone 4. To recite from Quran 5. To stand, bow and prostrate

Anything else that God didn't mention, is not important. As crazy as it may sound, how many raka you do, how your toe is curled, how your hands are positioned doesn't matter to God from what I can see through Quran. All that matters is that we worship him. Our intention and sincerity matter. The details are for those who want to show everyone "I'm more Islamic than you."

Lastly, I'll say study history. You will find many answers. What Muslim scholars have done to Quran is the exact same thing the Jewish pharisees did to the Torah. They added the Talmud, oral Torah and changed Gods laws and added to his words. Same thing with Hadith. Are we allowed to do this?

[10:59] Say, "Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you made some of it forbidden and some lawful?" Say, "Did God authorize you, or did you invent lies against God?"

[16:116] You shall not invent lies about God by attributing lies with your tongues, saying: "This is lawful and that is forbidden." Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.

As for the "science" of Hadith. It's absurd to me that there needs to be a SCIENCE of Hadith. Humans don't sit around, make a science out of Gods law and decide what is from God and what is not. We humans don't have that right and are overstepping our bounds and making a mockery of Gods word if we do that. A bunch of HUMAN scholars sitting around and deciding what is "Sahih" and part of Islam and what is not, is not one bit different from a bunch of Romans & Christians taking a vote on what gospels will and won't be included in the New Testament Bible at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD.

As for the next question: Do you think you know more than the Muslim scholars who have dedicated their life to studying Islam? My answer is NO. But I do think I have a better ability to reason than them and see things from an unbiased point of view, without any attachments to a particular sect or ideology. There are scholars of Catholicism too, who have dedicated their lives to the study of their religion. It doesn't make them right.

The message is clear. At least to me it is. Peace!

 

[Pastek]

Without hadiths you think you could know the life of the prophet Muhammad (saw) and his companions, or understand fully some verses of the Quran ?

I think it's too easy to say that you reject the hadiths and in the same time you need them to know who was the Prophet like : his birth, his family, his caracter etc ...

I understand that we can't accept them all, but rejecting them all is not a solution.
Many of them explain how people in Medina and Mecca used to live before Islam and after Islam.
And it helps a lot for juridiction's issues for exemple.

 

[Aamer]

Without hadiths you think you could know the life of the prophet Muhammad (saw) and his companions, or understand fully some verses of the Quran ?

I think it's too easy to say that you reject the hadiths and in the same time you need them to know who was the Prophet like : his birth, his family, his caracter etc ...

I understand that we can't accept them all, but rejecting them all is not a solution.
Many of them explain how people in Medina and Mecca used to live before Islam and after Islam.
And it helps a lot for juridiction's issues for exemple.

It's all heresy anyway. You have no idea which stories are true and which are not. And I am pretty sure Prophet Muhammad was a much better man than what the Hadith paint him out to be. As in I have a hard time believing that the Prophet of Allah who delivered the Quran was sexist, racist, violent, married a child bride, etc. But anyway, I'm not talking about whether one should accept or reject Hadith. I'm just saying they're not part of Islam. If they were meant to be, God would have told us that in explicit terms in his book, the Quran.

 

[Focus on God]

Salaam. I've been practicing Islam for a good 15 years and I have learned so much through my own experiences in life. I know this is an old thread but to Aamer....I totally agree with everything you said. I struggled with hadith since I first looked into them...I always felt uncomfortable with them. The real focus is that Allah wants us to worship Him, and worship Him with sincerity. I do not believe there is one absolute specific way to reach this goal. No one can change my negative feelings towards hadith, I will only use them as historical sources to help myself become a better Muslim in the eyes of Allah. No one can bully me into believing them to be truth cause I have seen my fair share of bizarre hadith that make absolutely no logical sense. Our Lord has given us brains to think with, He wants us to apply them. If we blindly follow information because its from someone whose trustworthy or favoured is total rubbish. Its clear that Allah protected the Quran and no other book. I am not going to put my life on the line for books recorded hundreds of years after the Prophets death! Start from the Quran, take lessons from there, use life experiences...cause and effect...to help you improve yourself...use hadith wherever they help you in making yourself a better character.

 

[Union]

Salaam. I've been practicing Islam for a good 15 years and I have learned so much through my own experiences in life. I know this is an old thread but to Aamer....I totally agree with everything you said. I struggled with hadith since I first looked into them...I always felt uncomfortable with them. The real focus is that Allah wants us to worship Him, and worship Him with sincerity. I do not believe there is one absolute specific way to reach this goal. No one can change my negative feelings towards hadith, I will only use them as historical sources to help myself become a better Muslim in the eyes of Allah. No one can bully me into believing them to be truth cause I have seen my fair share of bizarre hadith that make absolutely no logical sense. Our Lord has given us brains to think with, He wants us to apply them. If we blindly follow information because its from someone whose trustworthy or favoured is total rubbish. Its clear that Allah protected the Quran and no other book. I am not going to put my life on the line for books recorded hundreds of years after the Prophets death! Start from the Quran, take lessons from there, use life experiences...cause and effect...to help you improve yourself...use hadith wherever they help you in making yourself a better character.

Salaam and glad to learn your thought about Hadith . It is really inspiring . There is a Qur'anist DIR in Islam DIR section in this forum . You may can contribute a lot by sharing your precious knowledge . You are most welcome there , anytime . Thanks .

Qur'anist DIR - Religious Education Forum

 

[Ageha]

The thing is, without Hadith you wont know how to pray or do Wotho'a.. as s simple example. If you think you can, please use only Quran to describe the steps of the prayers, and how would you know how many Raka'at in each one?

 

[Union]

The thing is, without Hadith you wont know how to pray or do Wotho'a.. as s simple example. If you think you can, please use only Quran to describe the steps of the prayers, and how would you know how many Raka'at in each one?

Salam Israa . ALLAH (swt) confirms that Qur'an is self-sufficient , well-detailed and enough for the Muslim . After realizing this staunch fact , if still we think that Qur'an doesn't detailed about Salah it would be a lie against GOD , the Al-knowing .

The matter of fact is whatever is in Qur'an about Salah doesn't match the way Sunni and Shia prayer , hence we raise objection . It is like Shia don't find the doctrine of 12 Imams and then object that Qur'an is not enough and you have to look into Usule Kafi .

Whatsoever , ALLAH (swt) dealt with Salah in over 100 verses in Qur'an directly or indirectly . In these verses HE , the Exalted explained the names of the Salah , their timings , their mode of actions and all relevant issues .

Again , my dear Israa , the whole issue is we have to shift our method of Salah (and everything we traditionally practice...) as found in Hadith books to the same of Almighty GOD as found in Qur'an and never be the opposite . For your persual , please hit the link :

Salah in Qur'an

 

[seeking4truth]

[33:21/22] Verily you have in the Prophet of Allah an excellent model, for him who fears Allah and the Last Day and who remembers Allah much.

The sunnah, ie practice of Islam witnessed and passed down through the generations
Haddith ie. what people reported they remembered being said and done.

Both are necessary as a commentary of the Holy Quran. In all three cases there is opportunity for misunderstanding and misuse either through innocence, ignorance or intention.
Thank God He knows our intentions and what brings us to act in the way we do. He alone is our judge and our guide.

 

[Union]

[33:21/22] Verily you have in the Prophet of Allah an excellent model, for him who fears Allah and the Last Day and who remembers Allah much.

The sunnah, ie practice of Islam witnessed and passed down through the generations
Haddith ie. what people reported they remembered being said and done.

Both are necessary as a commentary of the Holy Quran. In all three cases there is opportunity for misunderstanding and misuse either through innocence, ignorance or intention.
Thank God He knows our intentions and what brings us to act in the way we do. He alone is our judge and our guide.

The example and model of Prophet is Qur'an and not Hadith . Prophet lived Qur'an , walked Qur'an and died leaving only Qur'an . Hadith were created some hundred years after the demise of the Prophet .

Even his companions also recorded only Qur'an from him and did all the efforts to preserve the Qur'an for their next generations . They didn't g record a single page of Hadith at all . You know why ? Because they didn't know what Hadith is .

 

[seeking4truth]

The Holy Quran is not a commentary on the life of the Holy Prophet.

The Quran provides knowledge and guidance for us to increase understanding of the purpose of our life and how to achieve that purpose.
The life and example of the Holy Prophet show us how to put it into practice.

 

[Union]

The Holy Quran is not a commentary on the life of the Holy Prophet.

The Quran provides knowledge and guidance for us to increase understanding of the purpose of our life and how to achieve that purpose.
The life and example of the Holy Prophet show us how to put it into practice.

People don't need to know what was the height of Prophet Muhammad or how many grey hairs he had to be a Muslim . Even Sirah and Hadith differ a lot on those issues .

The basic Islamic beliefs surrounding Prophet Muhammad are well documented in Qur'an . That's all we need to know to be a muttaqi .

And according to ALLAH (swt) the Qur'an is detailed and enough for the Muslim , then why you need to know Tafsir ? Qur'an is all you need .

 

[Jedi]

There are some interesting points but how would you know what to do for hajj?

 

[Union]

There are some interesting points but how would you know what to do for hajj?

Hi Jedi and welcome to RF :foryou:

Just a quick question before answering you specifically . I hope you are a reader of Qur'an and don't you come across to any verse in Qur'an pertaining 'Hajj' directly and/or indirectly during your study of Qur'an ?

 

[Jedi]

Hi Jedi and welcome to RF :foryou:

Just a quick question before answering you specifically . I hope you are a reader of Qur'an and don't you come across to any verse in Qur'an pertaining 'Hajj' directly and/or indirectly during your study of Qur'an ?

Thanks! Yes, it mentions Hajj but not what to do at Hajj. The Quran doesn't say you need to dress in ihram and perform tawaff for example.

 

[beenie]

Thanks! Yes, it mentions Hajj but not what to do at Hajj. The Quran doesn't say you need to dress in ihram and perform tawaff for example.

Then maybe you don't.

 

[shaheed]

I'm a born Muslim and never practised my religion and never attended madrassa and I don't know any hadith;my cousin who is a moulana when ever he comes to visit would give dawa; and every time he would say that the prophet said this or do that etc;last month I woke up one morning and the hadith issue was constantly in my mind;when my cousin came again and he again gave dawa that the prophet said this and that;how do u know that the prophet actually said and did things he then gave me a long lecture of Bukhari who compiled hadith how he heard from people that this one heard it from that one etc and I asked him didbukhari lived in the ttime of the prophet he said no he lived 200 years after the prophet ;and then asked him was bhukhari a prophet he said no I again asked him so why must I follow him and hadith my cousin then said to I am not a Muslim if I don't believe in the Quran and hadith I asked him who gave him that authority to say that I am not a Muslim if I don't believe in the Quran and sunnah he told me that a fatwa was issued.I then said OK show me any verse in the Quran that makes your statement valid he couldnt show me prove from the Quran but instead showed me prove from a hadith I then told him I was born a Muslim without any madab and I will die a Muslim without a madab and I reject all hadith and will only follow the quran.And today I'm glad I came to this site by chance that there are people like me who feel the same way about hadith.

 

[shaheed]

I'm a born Muslim and never practised my religion and never attended madrassa and I don't know any hadith;my cousin who is a moulana when ever he comes to visit would give dawa; and every time he would say that the prophet said this or do that etc;last month I woke up one morning and the hadith issue was constantly in my mind;when my cousin came again and he again gave dawa that the prophet said this and that;how do u know that the prophet actually said and did things he then gave me a long lecture of Bukhari who compiled hadith how he heard from people that this one heard it from that one etc and I asked him didbukhari lived in the ttime of the prophet he said no he lived 200 years after the prophet ;and then asked him was bhukhari a prophet he said no I again asked him so why must I follow him and hadith my cousin then said to I am not a Muslim if I don't believe in the Quran and hadith I asked him who gave him that authority to say that I am not a Muslim if I don't believe in the Quran and sunnah he told me that a fatwa was issued.I then said OK show me any verse in the Quran that makes your statement valid he couldnt show me prove from the Quran but instead showed me prove from a hadith I then told him I was born a Muslim without any madab and I will die a Muslim without a madab and I reject all hadith and will only follow the quran.And today I'm glad I came to this site by chance that there are people like me who feel the same way about hadith.

 

[Farrukh]

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
(Sermon delivered on the ninth day of Dhul-Hajj 10 A.H. and witnessed by 120,000 Muslims)
how we can deny importance of Hadith? how you can know about Sunnah of Holy Prophet if you ignore authentic books of hadith?

 

[Union]

Thanks! Yes, it mentions Hajj but not what to do at Hajj. The Quran doesn't say you need to dress in ihram and perform tawaff for example.

Hi Jedi . Sister Ssainhu already answered you precisely . Islam starts from Surah Fatiha and finishes with Surah Nass . If you don't find anything in Qur'an that is practiced by Muslim , is not from GOD , the Almighty .

 

[Union]

I'm a born Muslim and never practised my religion and never attended madrassa and I don't know any hadith;my cousin who is a moulana when ever he comes to visit would give dawa; and every time he would say that the prophet said this or do that etc;last month I woke up one morning and the hadith issue was constantly in my mind;when my cousin came again and he again gave dawa that the prophet said this and that;how do u know that the prophet actually said and did things he then gave me a long lecture of Bukhari who compiled hadith how he heard from people that this one heard it from that one etc and I asked him didbukhari lived in the ttime of the prophet he said no he lived 200 years after the prophet ;and then asked him was bhukhari a prophet he said no I again asked him so why must I follow him and hadith my cousin then said to I am not a Muslim if I don't believe in the Quran and hadith I asked him who gave him that authority to say that I am not a Muslim if I don't believe in the Quran and sunnah he told me that a fatwa was issued.I then said OK show me any verse in the Quran that makes your statement valid he couldnt show me prove from the Quran but instead showed me prove from a hadith I then told him I was born a Muslim without any madab and I will die a Muslim without a madab and I reject all hadith and will only follow the quran.And today I'm glad I came to this site by chance that there are people like me who feel the same way about hadith.

Thanks Shaheed for sharing your story . And to tell you , you are not alone . Millions of Muslims now realize the true nature of Hadith and abandoning it big time .