Why Hadith can NOT be part of Islam

[Union]

it seems like you have no knowledge about what hadith is, just spreading propaganda on little misleading knowledge. you haven't explained any reference. there is no 2803 number on the link that you provided. now please stop playing.

You are a silly child . Every time you stuck with number and every time I have to use font 7 , to show that number . Whats wrong with you ? Don't you know how to count the number ??

https://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/007-smt.php

Then scroll down to Hadith no.2803 :

Book 007, Number 2803:

Ja'far b Muhammad reported on the authority of his father: We went to Jabir b. Abdullah and he began inquiring about the people (who had gone to see him) till it was my turn. I said: I am Muhammad b. 'Ali b. Husain. He placed his hand upon my head and opened my upper button and then the lower one and then placed his palm on my chest (in order to bless me), and I was, during those days, a young boy, and he said: You are welcome, my nephew. Ask whatever you want to ask. And I asked him but as he was blind (he could not respond to me immediately), and the time for prayer came. He stood up covering himself in his mantle. And whenever he placed its ends upon his shoulders they slipped down on account of being short (in size). Another mantle was, however, lying on the clothes rack near by. And he led us in the prayer. I said to him: Tell me about the Hajj of Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him). And he pointed with his hand nine, and then stated: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) stayed in (Medina) for nine years but did not perform Hajj, then he made a public announcement in the tenth year to the effect that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to perform the Hajj. A large number of persons came to Medina and all of them were anxious to follow the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) and do according to his doing. We set out with him till we reached Dhu'l-Hulaifa. Asma' daughter of Umais gave birth to Muhammad b. Abu Bakr. She sent message to the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) asking him: What should 1 do? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Take a bath, bandage your private parts and put on Ihram. The Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) then prayed in the mosque and then mounted al-Qaswa (his she-camel) and it stood erect with him on its back at al-Baida'. And I saw as far as I could see in front of me but riders and pedestrians, and also on my right and on my left and behind me like this. And the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was prominent among us and the (revelation) of the Holy Qur'an was descending upon him. And it is he who knows (its true) significance. And whatever he did, we also did that. He pronounced the Oneness of Allah (saying):" Labbaik,0 Allah, Labbaik, Labbaik. Thou hast no partner, praise and grace is Thine and the Sovereignty too; Thou hast no partner.".......
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[farouk]

Ssainhu squared up the issue very precisely . This questioned can be answered from the following verse :

"They ask you what to spend, say: ‘al-affwoo’. God thus clarifies the revelations for you that you may reflect" 2:219

The Key word in this verse is the word "al-affwoo". To be able to determine what is exactly meant by this word we should look at other Quranic verses that employ the same word. The following are some Quranic verses that are of special significance to our inquiry:

"Additionally, they worshiped the calf, after all the miracles they had seen. 'fa afawna aan zalika' (We pardoned all this)" 4:153

"Who give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and 'al-aafeen aan al-naas' (pardoners of the people). God loves the charitable" 3:134

"O you who believe, do not ask about matters which, if revealed to you prematurely, would hurt you. If you ask about them in light of the Quran, they will become obvious to you. God has 'AAFA ANHA' (deliberately overlooked them).God is Forgiver, Clement" 5:101

" ........... 'aafa Allah aamma salaf' (God has pardoned past offenses). But if anyone returns to such an offense, God will avenge it. God is Almighty, Avenger" 5:95

According to the above verse, we can see that the word "al-affwoo" (and its derivatives) has been used to mean : that which has been pardoned or overlooked.

If we apply this to the word "al-affwoo" which is used in 2:219 and which is related to the payment of money, we can see that God is telling us that we should pay from that part of our income which we can afford to give away without the need to ask for it back, or in other words what we can afford to overlook and pardon without incurring any hardship.

It is significant that God did not define or quantize the exact portion of our incomes which we are able to give to charity and be able to overlook it (not ask for it back). God knows that this will be different for each individual and directly dependent on each's income and circumstances. It is also dependent on each person's desire to do righteousness. Consequently, God left it to each indivisual to assess his/her own needs and obligations, and then decide what portion of one's excess income that can be given away and overlooked without incurring any hardship.

Nowehere in the Quran is there any hint of a fixed rate of obligatory alms-giving. The 2.5% which is followed by Muslims around the world rate is not found in the Quran. The source of this ritual, as many other non Quranic rituals, can only be found in the 'hadith' collections. We have seen that the Quran defines the this obligatory payment from 'Al-AFW', which is what a person is able to give away without incurring any great hardship. Obviously this amount will differ from person to another depending on each's income.

As a matter of fact, in 17:26-29 we can see concrete confirmation that God did NOT set a fixed percentage for payment :

"You shall give the relatives, the needy and the homeless their ‘haqahu’ (decreed right), but do not be excessive, extravagant. The extravagant are brethren of the devils, and the devil is unappreciative of his Lord. Even if you have to turn away from them, as you pursue the mercy of your Lord, you shall treat them in the nicest manner. You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry" 17:26-29

Hence the general rule of spending money in Qur'an , for every case including the Sadaqat :

"You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry"

We must meditate on these words for a while and then pose the following question: If God had actually set a fixed percentage (e.g. 2.5%) for the payment , would He command us not to be stingy nor too extravagant? The words do not be stingy nor too extravagant indicate that the percentage is NOT fixed, but is flexible and that it has been left to each individual's means.

Salaams to all
Tks for your reply.very interesting indeed.I have been overpaying my zakaat nontheless Allah will reward me for giving more.
Union tell me did you ever give the Adhan in your entire life?
Please excuse me if my questions hurt you in any way but i ask so that i can understand Quranist more clearly.
Salaams
Farouk

 

[Farrukh]

Salaams to all
Tks for your reply.very interesting indeed.I have been overpaying my zakaat nontheless Allah will reward me for giving more.
Union tell me did you ever give the Adhan in your entire life?
Please excuse me if my questions hurt you in any way but i ask so that i can understand Quranist more clearly.
Salaams
Farouk

he will show you Adhan from Quran, never mind.

 

[Farrukh]

You are a silly child . Every time you stuck with number and every time I have to use font 7 , to show that number . Whats wrong with you ? Don't you know how to count the number ??

enough play, before you tried to provide some link from shia websites, and now you are showing hadith from Jewish links, please stop. even if you prove somehow that hadith has no value, you are free to do whatever you like, be happy with your faith if it comforts you, but I as a Muslim stand with Muslim Ummah. And i'm happy with that.

 

[Union]

Salaams to all
Tks for your reply.very interesting indeed.I have been overpaying my zakaat nontheless Allah will reward me for giving more.
Union tell me did you ever give the Adhan in your entire life?
Please excuse me if my questions hurt you in any way but i ask so that i can understand Quranist more clearly.
Salaams
Farouk

W/salam . May you are giving less , who knows . If your saving is big enough than your overheads , you may can afford more than 2.5% . And ALLAH , the Almighty knows the intention , not us .

According to Hadith Adhan was not known to Prophet and his companions the whole 13 years in Mecca and some early part of Medina though Salah decreed much earlier , then how can we expect much of this to be found in Qur'an .

It is not part of Salah nor obligatory in any respect - hence not of any importance in Qur'an as well .

Whatsoever , verse 5.58 and 62.9 suggest that an announcement can be made for calling the people to Salah , which may simply be 'Come to Salah ' (Hayya Ala Salah) or anything reminding for joining the Salah .

 

[farouk]

W/salam . May you are giving less , who knows . If your saving is big enough than your overheads , you may can afford more than 2.5% . And ALLAH , the Almighty knows the intention , not us .

According to Hadith Adhan was not known to Prophet and his companions the whole 13 years in Mecca and some early part of Medina though Salah decreed much earlier , then how can we expect much of this to be found in Qur'an .

It is not part of Salah nor obligatory in any respect - hence not of any importance in Qur'an as well .

Whatsoever , verse 5.58 and 62.9 suggest that an announcement can be made for calling the people to Salah , which may simply be 'Come to Salah ' (Hayya Ala Salah) or anything reminding for joining the Salah .

Salaams union
On the first issue of zakaat i am paying 2.5% at present because any amout less will be sin and accountable to Allah.As a Quranist there is no minimum nor maximum amount one should pay.From what i understood you said it is left to the individual on what amount he or she should pay.In other words if i decide to pay 1% then there should be no sin on my part.Is this correct or have i misunderstood you?
On the question of Adhan the Noble Quraan mention proclim the call of prayer (Adhan) but it does not state how we should proclaim the call of prayer.Your opinion is simply say Hayya Ala salah.The question is where did you get this call"Hayya Ala Salah"from because its not in the Quraan?
Salaams
Farouk

 

[Union]

Salaams union
On the first issue of zakaat i am paying 2.5% at present because any amout less will be sin and accountable to Allah.As a Quranist there is no minimum nor maximum amount one should pay.From what i understood you said it is left to the individual on what amount he or she should pay.In other words if i decide to pay 1% then there should be no sin on my part.Is this correct or have i misunderstood you?

W/Salam .Yes , you misunderstood . ALLAH (swt) instructed to pay Zakat as per the financial situation one goes through , not what one's ego decide to . If a billionaire thinks that s/he will pay $10 dollar/year though s/he can save some millions after meeting all his/her needs , certainly it is stinginess .On the other hand if that same billionaire thinks that s/he will spend the whole of money for Zakat , it is also foolish , as this will compel him/her to be poor . Please ponder on the verse I mentioned :

"...You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry"

On the question of Adhan the Noble Quraan mention proclim the call of prayer (Adhan) but it does not state how we should proclaim the call of prayer.Your opinion is simply say Hayya Ala salah.The question is where did you get this call"Hayya Ala Salah"from because its not in the Quraan?
Salaams
Farouk

The noble verse says :

[5:58] واذا ناديتم الى الصلوة اتخذوها هزوا ولعبا ذلك بانهم قوم لا يعقلون

"When you call to prayer ......"

How one should call to prayer ? Let us set simple example , if you call somebody for eating ice cream , what would you say ? 'Come to eat ice cream' , isn't it? When you call your child for study , what would you say ? 'Go and study ' . These are common senses .

In the similar manner , when somebody will call the others for prayer , s/he would say , 'Come to Salah'/'Go and perform Salah'/'Let us go for Salah' etc. . It doesn't make much sense when you call somebody to prayer but you say "ALLAH is Great" , "Muhammad is the Messenger" , "Ali is ALLAH's friend" etc. There is always be different times and scopes for announcing those things , but not for Salah .

Hope it makes sense to you .

 

[Farrukh]

why Muslims say Sajda to anyone other than Allah(سبحانه و تعالى&#8206 is prohibited? Holy Quran mentioned about family of Yousuf(AS) bowing down before Yousuf(AS).

 

[Union]

why Muslims say Sajda to anyone other than Allah(سبحانه و تعالى&#8206 is prohibited? Holy Quran mentioned about family of Yousuf(AS) bowing down before Yousuf(AS).

All sujud are not of the same type . One is physical Sujud and the other one is metaphorical . Qur'an states that sun , moon and planets did sujud to Prophet Yusuf [Q.12.4] . What do you think , was it literal or symbolical ? Before you troubling me on unnecessary silly issue , as you do always, here is a pic how a moon looks like :

 

[Farrukh]

All sujud are not of the same type . One is physical Sujud and the other one is metaphorical . Qur'an states that sun , moon and planets did sujud to Prophet Yusuf [Q.12.4] .

it has nothing to do with what I asked. I think you will need few hours until you hit upon some answer.

 

[seeking4truth]

why Muslims say Sajda to anyone other than Allah(سبحانه و تعالى&#8206 is prohibited? Holy Quran mentioned about family of Yousuf(AS) bowing down before Yousuf(AS).

before Yousuf does not mean bowing down to worship him.
It means following his example and bowing down to express gratitude to Almighty Allah.

 

[Farrukh]

before Yousuf does not mean bowing down to worship him.
It means following his example and bowing down to express gratitude to Almighty Allah.

whatever,
any type of Sajda to anyone beside God is prohibited in Islam.

 

[Union]

before Yousuf does not mean bowing down to worship him.
It means following his example and bowing down to express gratitude to Almighty Allah.

Wonderful answer . Thanks for clarification .

 

[Union]

whatever,
any type of Sajda to anyone beside God is prohibited in Islam.

Then why GOD , the Almighty , Himself told Satan to sujud to Adam ?

 

[Farrukh]

Then why GOD , the Almighty , Himself told Satan to sujud to Adam ?

that is what I asked.
I can answer from hadith if you are failed.

 

[Union]

that is what I asked.
I can answer from hadith if you are failed.

Are you saying your Hadith-gods know better than the One GOD ALLAH , the Exalted - what is prohibited in Islam and what is not ? :cover:

In other word you are blaming ALLAH , the Exalted for commanding prohibited things just because your Hadith-Islam is teaching you something .

 

[Union]

that is what I asked.
I can answer from hadith if you are failed.

You are caught in red hand of misintreprating Islam bro , get your fact straight . Explain , why Almighty GOD ordered Satan to Sujud Adam if all types of sujud prohibited in Islam .

 

[Farrukh]

“The only thing more frustrating than slanderers is those foolish enough to listen to them.”

― Criss Jami

 

[Union]

“The only thing more frustrating than slanderers is those foolish enough to listen to them.”

― Criss Jami

What more you can excuse if you don't have answer ! feel sorry you bro .

 

[Union]

The meaning of SJD from Lane's Lexicon :