Why Heaven and Hell?

[psychoslice]

why heaven and hell ?.......well we need something to keep those who cannot behave naturally in check, many seem to need the weight of scare tactic's to make them behave, take their religion away from them and see them all clasping, a very dangerous situation for the immature in spirit.

 

[Deeje]

Not to get into a long, draw out post about it, but Christianity has butchered what the Bible actually says about Heaven and Hell. Much of that butchery comes from the 1611 KJV which erroneously translates a simple concept in either Hebrew or Greek. The Bible never says that we go to heaven when we die, only paradise. Revelation 21 defines paradise as being on New Earth, not Heaven.

Secondly, the term for heaven in Greek is ouranós, and it has three different meanings:

1. God's place of dwelling.
2. The cosmos.
3. The sky.

You have to look at each verse in context to understand which of the three it is referring to.

Lastly, Hell is a butchery of four different terms that were lumped together. Those terms are:

1. Sheol - Hebrew for the grave
2. Hades - Greek for the grave
3. Tartarus - a place of punishment for rebellious angels
4. Gehenna - a place of burning

The Church uses the concept of Hell as a place of burning and eternal torment for the purposes of fear mongering and guilt trips. It is utter nonsense.

I don't often agree with everything you write Neo....but you pretty much nailed it with this post.

 

[MountainPine]

I don't believe heaven can be equated with Heaven even though both are out in space.

What is that supposed to mean? Heaven is universe, including Earth (Luke 17:21). To enter the Kingdom of Heaven is to conform to God's will by doing what he says. The physical Kingdom of Heaven will be established on Earth after the Judgment. The Bible calls it the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2).

Traditional Christian theology is wrong about Heaven being an alternate plane that exists apart from the material universe. Dualism is not a Biblical concept, but comes from Manichaeism. No one "goes to Heaven". The Bible records only three people who ascended into Heaven: Enoch, Elijah, and Jesus. Men die once, next is the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27), and no one has ascended into Heaven (from death) except the Son of Man (John 3:13-14).

 

[idav]

I believe that is incorrect.

Is it only incorrect in regards to a rapture scenario? Where in scripture does it say we go straight to heaven upon death?

I believe prophecy is hard to figure out sometimes but that does not mean it isn't meaningful.

Oh I agree and actually dreams are very useful but not like we know if we can take something like a dream literally. Revelations sounds highly symbolic, but somehow we are supposed to take the characters literally among talk of dragon heads representing leaders and stars falling from the sky causing "wormwood" to poison us?

 

[Muffled]

What is that supposed to mean? Heaven is universe, including Earth (Luke 17:21). To enter the Kingdom of Heaven is to conform to God's will by doing what he says. The physical Kingdom of Heaven will be established on Earth after the Judgment. The Bible calls it the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2).

Traditional Christian theology is wrong about Heaven being an alternate plane that exists apart from the material universe. Dualism is not a Biblical concept, but comes from Manichaeism. No one "goes to Heaven". The Bible records only three people who ascended into Heaven: Enoch, Elijah, and Jesus. Men die once, next is the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27), and no one has ascended into Heaven (from death) except the Son of Man (John 3:13-14).

I believe I was in Heaven.

I think it is strange that I have never heard this concept expressed in any church. Are you making this up?

I don't believe the evidence supports that concept.

I don't believe that they ascended into Heaven. I do believe they ascended into heaven. I do believe Jesus is reputed to be in Heaven but I do not believe He was there physically. As God He is everywhere but not physically.

I believe that talks about the past but the past does not determine the future.

 

[Muffled]

Is it only incorrect in regards to a rapture scenario? Where in scripture does it say we go straight to heaven upon death?

Oh I agree and actually dreams are very useful but not like we know if we can take something like a dream literally. Revelations sounds highly symbolic, but somehow we are supposed to take the characters literally among talk of dragon heads representing leaders and stars falling from the sky causing "wormwood" to poison us?[/QUOTE]

I believe you said (since I copied it "No resurrection equals no afterlife according to Christianity." I believe rapture is not an afterlife condition.

I believe it does not. I believe it says that we will be with Jesus after we die. I believe Jesus is everywhere so Heaven is only one possibility.

I believe a vision is not the same thing as a dream. I believe Revelations is very symbolic abut that does not mean the events are any less real.

I believe that depends on the dream. Most dreams are fantasy but some are prophetic. I believe the dream was relating an actual event and showing why the prophecy would be fulfilled.

 

[MountainPine]

I don't believe that they ascended into Heaven. I do believe they ascended into heaven.

There isn't any difference between Heaven and heaven. It's the same—planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc.

As God He is everywhere but not physically.

Jesus is not God (Mark 10:18, John 4:24, John 5:24, John 14:28, John 20:17, 1 John 4:12)

I believe that talks about the past but the past does not determine the future.

It's talking about the past and present. No one will be in Heaven until the Resurrections and the Judgment (see Revelation 20). You can believe otherwise all you want, but you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't believe what the Bible says.

 

[Muffled]

There isn't any difference between Heaven and heaven. It's the same—planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc.

Jesus is not God (Mark 10:18, John 4:24, John 5:24, John 14:28, John 20:17, 1 John 4:12)

It's talking about the past and present. No one will be in Heaven until the Resurrections and the Judgment (see Revelation 20). You can believe otherwise all you want, but you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't believe what the Bible says.

I believe heaven is the place that has planets, solar systems & galaxies but Heaven has nothing material.

I don't have time for all of these but for this one Jesus is the Spirit of God in a body which is consistent with that verse. So when I am talking about Jesus being God I am not talking about the body but about the fact that the Spirit of God gives Jesus His identity.

I believe to say it is about the present you have to show a word that means present. For me the operation word is "has" which means the past.

I believe what the Bible says but I don't believe false information from those who do not understand the Bible. I have never been closer to Jesus in my life than I am right now. I am so close that sometimes I do not know where I begin and Jesus leaves off.