Why I believe God Created Life.

[rusra02]

I believe that God created this universe with the laws required to bring physical life into existence. I also think there's a good chance that He made the laws in such a way that abiogenesis is possible.


That's fine with me. God having made the laws of chemistry are not a threat to the possibility of abiogenesis. That would only mean that abiogenesis came about because God made it possible.


That would prove the Universe is old, but what about the Earth? Is the Earth itself only 6,000 years old?

I am pleased you believe God created the universe. I believe he explains clearly and simply how he created life in Genesis 1 and 2. Since God created the heavens and the earth "In the beginning", the earth shares the same age as the rest of the universe. Earth existed long before the creative periods mentioned in Genesis chapter one began.

 

[rusra02]

I can not speak for the other member, but for me you still need to show that the universe is "fine tuned".
You have not done so.

I did post evidence for fine-tuning already. But why do you not investigate for yourself? The evidence is there for each person to investigate. I find this quote interesting: "Despite the evidence that the natural world seems too well designed to be a mindless accident, many scientists refuse to believe in a Creator. It is not that science somehow compels atheists to “accept a material explanation” of the world, says evolutionist Richard C. Lewontin. Rather, he says, it is their “prior commitment . . . to materialism,” their determination to create “a set of concepts that produce material explanations.” “That materialism,” he adds, speaking for scientists in general, “is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
Is such dogmatism wise, especially if the evidence overwhelmingly points to a Creator? What do you think?—Romans 1:20." (G2/09 p.3)

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Even so, making the fine-tuning required for life on the earth all the more unique. The seemingly endless stream of conditions required to support life argue for a Lifegiver, IMO, One with limitless power and wisdom. I believe Jehovah is "the Maker of the earth by his power, The One who established the productive land by his wisdom And who stretched out the heavens by his understanding." (Jeremiah 10:12)

But it's not fine tuned life is on a constant struggle the very oxygen we breathe is killing us slowly. Organisms face extinction from each other, and the planet itself.

Is earth tuned for life sure it certainly isn't fine tuned though.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I did post evidence for fine-tuning already. But why do you not investigate for yourself? The evidence is there for each person to investigate. I find this quote interesting: "Despite the evidence that the natural world seems too well designed to be a mindless accident, many scientists refuse to believe in a Creator. It is not that science somehow compels atheists to “accept a material explanation” of the world, says evolutionist Richard C. Lewontin. Rather, he says, it is their “prior commitment . . . to materialism,” their determination to create “a set of concepts that produce material explanations.” “That materialism,” he adds, speaking for scientists in general, “is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
Is such dogmatism wise, especially if the evidence overwhelmingly points to a Creator? What do you think?—Romans 1:20." (G2/09 p.3)

However is this creator the Abrahamic God? And is this creator omnipotent? Or just sufficiently more advanced?

 

[rusra02]

But it's not fine tuned life is on a constant struggle the very oxygen we breathe is killing us slowly. Organisms face extinction from each other, and the planet itself.

Is earth tuned for life sure it certainly isn't fine tuned though.

I think we know who is largely responsible for the ruining of the earth, and it is selfish, ignorant, and greedy people. Much of earth's woes are man-made. Still, the earth and we ourselves are in a condition far different from what our Creator purposed. Death and suffering are the results of man's rebellion against God, a rebellion, I believe, that will soon be ended decisively, once and forever. Then God's kingdom will restore the earth and mankind to the condition God purposed when he created mankind. As Romans 8:20-22 assures us; "For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.*For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. " God promises to "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." (Revelation 11:18) I believe that promise will soon be reality.

 

[rusra02]

However is this creator the Abrahamic God? And is this creator omnipotent? Or just sufficiently more advanced?

Isaiah 46:9,10 says of Jehovah: "*Remember the former things of long ago, That I am God, and there is no other. I am God, and there is no one like me. *From the beginning I foretell the outcome, And from long ago the things that have not yet been done. I say, ‘My decision will stand, And I will do whatever I please.’ And yes, Jehovah was Abraham's God. ( Genesis 12:1)

 

[Mycroft]

Isaiah 46:9,10 says of Jehovah: "*Remember the former things of long ago, That I am God, and there is no other. I am God, and there is no one like me. *From the beginning I foretell the outcome, And from long ago the things that have not yet been done. I say, ‘My decision will stand, And I will do whatever I please.’ And yes, Jehovah was Abraham's God. ( Genesis 12:1)

He sounds like a complete moron to me. God, that is.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I think we know who is largely responsible for the ruining of the earth, and it is selfish, ignorant, and greedy people. Much of earth's woes are man-made. Still, the earth and we ourselves are in a condition far different from what our Creator purposed. Death and suffering are the results of man's rebellion against God, a rebellion, I believe, that will soon be ended decisively, once and forever. Then God's kingdom will restore the earth and mankind to the condition God purposed when he created mankind. As Romans 8:20-22 assures us; "For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.*For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. " God promises to "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." (Revelation 11:18) I believe that promise will soon be reality.

Ruining? Man is doing what any species left uncheck would do. We see that when a new species is introduced to any area with no predators, they effectively start to destroy the ecosystem...look at the cane toad. Still even without all that scientifically before the appearance of man we see plenty of death in destruction. What killed the dinosaurs? Are you saying that they lived with man and man was responsible for their deaths?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Isaiah 46:9,10 says of Jehovah: "*Remember the former things of long ago, That I am God, and there is no other. I am God, and there is no one like me. *From the beginning I foretell the outcome, And from long ago the things that have not yet been done. I say, ‘My decision will stand, And I will do whatever I please.’ And yes, Jehovah was Abraham's God. ( Genesis 12:1)

Jehovah is a poor translation of Hebrew...since from what little I know of Hebrew there really wasn't a J in their alphabet. That aside what proof that the creator of this universe is the Christian god? Or the Jewish god or the Islamic god?

 

[viole]

I did post evidence for fine-tuning already. But why do you not investigate for yourself? The evidence is there for each person to investigate. I find this quote interesting: "Despite the evidence that the natural world seems too well designed to be a mindless accident, many scientists refuse to believe in a Creator. It is not that science somehow compels atheists to “accept a material explanation” of the world, says evolutionist Richard C. Lewontin. Rather, he says, it is their “prior commitment . . . to materialism,” their determination to create “a set of concepts that produce material explanations.” “That materialism,” he adds, speaking for scientists in general, “is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
Is such dogmatism wise, especially if the evidence overwhelmingly points to a Creator? What do you think?—Romans 1:20." (G2/09 p.3)

As long as this "dogmatism" works, then it is clear that it is wise. Science does not seem to suffer the slightest inconvenience from not letting God in. He is, for lack of a better word, perfectly superfluous. Without this "dogmatism" we would still believe that Thor is the source of lightnings.

Usually, naturalistic explanations replace supernatural ones. The contrary never happens, for obvious reasons.

But what about this so-called fine tuning? What makes you think that life is such an important goal towards which Universes need to be tuned? Maybe our Universe is fine tuned for black holes, or rainbows, or earthquakes and life is just a useless side effect thereof.

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

He sounds like a complete moron to me. God, that is.

Why do you say that?

 

[rusra02]

Ruining? Man is doing what any species left uncheck would do. We see that when a new species is introduced to any area with no predators, they effectively start to destroy the ecosystem...look at the cane toad. Still even without all that scientifically before the appearance of man we see plenty of death in destruction. What killed the dinosaurs? Are you saying that they lived with man and man was responsible for their deaths?

Man has the ability to think, reason, and plan; to make moral choices. It is mankind's abortive attempt to decide for themselves what is good and bad, instead of following God's direction, that has caused such evil as we see today. That is what I believe.

 

[viole]

Man has the ability to think, reason, and plan; to make moral choices. It is mankind's abortive attempt to decide for themselves what is good and bad, instead of following God's direction, that has caused such evil as we see today. That is what I believe.

Should we resume stoning of children and slavery?

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

Jehovah is a poor translation of Hebrew...since from what little I know of Hebrew there really wasn't a J in their alphabet. That aside what proof that the creator of this universe is the Christian god? Or the Jewish god or the Islamic god?

Jehovah is God's name in English. Ancient Hebrews doubtless pronounced Jehovah differently, as they did Jesus, Jeremiah, and many other names of which we commonly accept the English pronunciation. The proof is as stated. Jehovah foretells future events long before they occur, and then unfailingly fulfills his word. No other god can do this. So accurate are Bible prophecies that critics falsely claim these prophecies were written after the events occurred.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Jehovah is God's name in English. Ancient Hebrews doubtless pronounced Jehovah differently, as they did Jesus, Jeremiah, and many other names of which we commonly accept the English pronunciation. The proof is as stated. Jehovah foretells future events long before they occur, and then unfailingly fulfills his word. No other god can do this. So accurate are Bible prophecies that critics falsely claim these prophecies were written after the events occurred.

But they were written after they occurred you don't need critics for that you can even see it in the way the prose changes.

 

[Parsimony]

I am pleased you believe God created the universe. I believe he explains clearly and simply how he created life in Genesis 1 and 2. Since God created the heavens and the earth "In the beginning", the earth shares the same age as the rest of the universe. Earth existed long before the creative periods mentioned in Genesis chapter one began.

Earlier in this thread you said, "I believe science has proven the earth is far older than six thousand years." Since you claim that science has proven the Earth to be old, can you provide scientific evidence that the Earth (not the Universe) is old?

 

[rusra02]

Should we resume stoning of children and slavery?

Ciao

- viole

Oppressive slavery is a global problem today. No need to resume it. The Bible does not approve of oppressing others. No need to stone children either. Millions are routinely starved, raped, and murdered around the world. Do you have a specific example where a child was stoned in the Bible?

 

[rusra02]

But they were written after they occurred you don't need critics for that you can even see it in the way the prose changes.

Since many prophecies, such as Babylon's total destruction, did not occur until many centuries after the Bible's completion, your assertion is obviously in error. (Isaiah 13:19,20)

 

[rusra02]

More than your slur against God's loving provision of the ransom, I find your depiction of God as an angry old man highly offensive. "But to whom can you people liken me so that I should be made his equal?” says the Holy One. “Raise you eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing." (Isaiah 39:25,26)

 

[McBell]

Since many prophecies, such as Babylon's total destruction, did not occur until many centuries after the Bible's completion, your assertion is obviously in error. (Isaiah 13:19,20)

:biglaugh: