Why I believe God Created Life.

[rusra02]

:biglaugh:

And you are laughing because....?

 

[McBell]

And you are laughing because....?

You would not understand.
Mainly because you have done such a terrific job of protecting your wee little box.

 

[viole]

Do you have a specific example where a child was stoned in the Bible?

No. But this is not the point. The point is that God, allegedely, gave clear rules concerning the treatment of rebellious kids. And they foresaw execution by stoning.

If nobody ever stoned a rebellious child just tells me that people did not follow God's rules at that time, either.

But, according to your previous post, not following God's directions is a source of evil.

So, should we or should we not follow God's directions?

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

No. But this is not the point. The point is that God, allegedely, gave clear rules concerning the treatment of rebellious kids. And they foresaw execution by stoning.

If nobody ever stoned a rebellious child just tells me that people did not follow God's rules at that time, either.

But, according to your previous post, not following God's directions is a source of evil.

So, should we or should we not follow God's directions?

Ciao

- viole

It is helpful to see what the Law of Moses does say about this: “If a man has a son who is stubborn and rebellious and he does not obey his father or his mother, and they have tried to correct him but he refuses to listen to them, his father and his mother should take hold of him and bring him out to the elders at the gate of his city and say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, and he refuses to obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his city must stone him to death. So you must remove what is bad from your midst, and all Israel will hear and become afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Please note this is not a child, because among other things, the person is a drunkard and glutton. Further, the parents must have made efforts to correct their rebellious offspring. The older men who served as judges would likely know the family and whether or to what extent the son had been corrected. The parents would initiate the judicial process, something no loving parent would do unless no alternative exists. This law demonstrates, IMO, the heavy responsibility parents have to train. and teach their children to respect divinely appointed authority. It also demonstrates our Creator's view of those who flaunt such authority. Obviously, his view is different from the permissive attitude common today.

 

[rusra02]

Since many prophecies, such as Babylon's total destruction, did not occur until many centuries after the Bible's completion, your assertion is obviously in error. (Isaiah 13:19,20)

Here a few more prophecies that have been fulfilled long after their utterance:

The exact year the Messiah would appear and when he would be killed - Daniel 9:25-27
"Over five centuries in advance, the Bible prophesied the exact year of the Messiah’s appearance. The time until his arrival was measured in weeks of years, meaning that each “week” was seven years long. There would be 7 plus 62 of such weeks, making a total of 69 weeks of years. That equals 483 years. When did that span of years begin? According to the Bible, the period began when God’s servant Nehemiah arrived in Jerusalem and began to rebuild the city. Persian history establishes the date as 455 B.C.E. (Nehemiah 2:1-5) Jesus was baptized as the Messiah 483 years later, in the year 29 C.E., exactly on time." (W12 1/1)
This same prophecy mentions the second destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, a prophecy Jesus confirmed would occur. (Luke 21:20-24) Jerusalem and it's temple were razed to the ground in 70 C.E.

 

[Parsimony]

Gonna give me some scientific evidence that the Earth is old, rusie?

 

[viole]

It is helpful to see what the Law of Moses does say about this: “If a man has a son who is stubborn and rebellious and he does not obey his father or his mother, and they have tried to correct him but he refuses to listen to them, his father and his mother should take hold of him and bring him out to the elders at the gate of his city and say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, and he refuses to obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his city must stone him to death. So you must remove what is bad from your midst, and all Israel will hear and become afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Please note this is not a child, because among other things, the person is a drunkard and glutton. Further, the parents must have made efforts to correct their rebellious offspring. The older men who served as judges would likely know the family and whether or to what extent the son had been corrected. The parents would initiate the judicial process, something no loving parent would do unless no alternative exists. This law demonstrates, IMO, the heavy responsibility parents have to train. and teach their children to respect divinely appointed authority. It also demonstrates our Creator's view of those who flaunt such authority. Obviously, his view is different from the permissive attitude common today.

So, do you think that we should kill drunkards and gluttons, in general? Or only the ones with parents? Should we kill adulterers, homosexuals and people working on the Sabbath, too?

If not, why not?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Here a few more prophecies that have been fulfilled long after their utterance:

The exact year the Messiah would appear and when he would be killed - Daniel 9:25-27
"Over five centuries in advance, the Bible prophesied the exact year of the Messiah’s appearance. The time until his arrival was measured in weeks of years, meaning that each “week” was seven years long. There would be 7 plus 62 of such weeks, making a total of 69 weeks of years. That equals 483 years. When did that span of years begin? According to the Bible, the period began when God’s servant Nehemiah arrived in Jerusalem and began to rebuild the city. Persian history establishes the date as 455 B.C.E. (Nehemiah 2:1-5) Jesus was baptized as the Messiah 483 years later, in the year 29 C.E., exactly on time." (W12 1/1)
This same prophecy mentions the second destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, a prophecy Jesus confirmed would occur. (Luke 21:20-24) Jerusalem and it's temple were razed to the ground in 70 C.E.

Since the Jewish people are, in general, quite confident with the Bible, why are they mostly unconvinced that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah?

If they are nor convinced, how could a skeptic be?

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

So, do you think that we should kill drunkards and gluttons, in general? Or only the ones with parents? Should we kill adulterers, homosexuals and people working on the Sabbath, too?

If not, why not?

Ciao

- viole

I believe the nation of Israel was in a unique position as God's nation, with Jehovah as their ruler and lawgiver. It is as Deuteronomy 7:6 states; "For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." In time, the nation of Israel was rejected by Jehovah, and the Law given to that nation ended. (Matthew 21:43, Romans 10:4) So, IMO, no one today is under the Law God gave Israel through Moses. That is not to say God has changed his views of such practices as disobedience to parents, gluttony, drunkenness, homosexual practices, etc. 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 warns; "Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

 

[viole]

I believe the nation of Israel was in a unique position as God's nation, with Jehovah as their ruler and lawgiver. It is as Deuteronomy 7:6 states; "For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." In time, the nation of Israel was rejected by Jehovah, and the Law given to that nation ended. (Matthew 21:43, Romans 10:4) So, IMO, no one today is under the Law God gave Israel through Moses. That is not to say God has changed his views of such practices as disobedience to parents, gluttony, drunkenness, homosexual practices, etc. 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 warns; "Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

Oh, that is a relief. Not inheriting God's kingdom seems less scary than being stoned to death. I am not sure how effective as a deterrent that can be, though, especially for people who never heard of a God's Kingdom.

But I am curious. Why do you think that the crator of the universe elected the people of israel as his chosen one? What is the problem with, say, vikings or american indians?

Isn't that maybe more plausible that the people of israel invented a God who chose them?

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

Since the Jewish people are, in general, quite confident with the Bible, why are they mostly unconvinced that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah?

If they are nor convinced, how could a skeptic be?

Ciao

- viole

Many Jews did accept Jesus as the Messiah in the first century. The many miracles Jesus performed and the wisdom of his teaching convinced them that Jesus is the true Messiah. As to why the majority of mankind, including Jews, do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, it is not for lack of evidence, IMO. Some persons have not had the opportunity to examine the evidence for themselves. Others reject the evidence because of fear of what others will say or do, because the truth is unpopular. (John 9:22) Many of the religious leaders in Jesus day were eyewitnesses to Jesus miracles, but refused to accept him because of their selfish concern for their own position. As Jesus told Nicodemus: “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged. Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. *For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. *But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”

 

[rusra02]

Oh, that is a relief. Not inheriting God's kingdom seems less scary than being stoned to death. I am not sure how effective as a deterrent that can be, though, especially for people who never heard of a God's Kingdom.

But I am curious. Why do you think that the crator of the universe elected the people of israel as his chosen one? What is the problem with, say, vikings or american indians?

Isn't that maybe more plausible that the people of israel invented a God who chose them?

Ciao

- viole

You ask good, thoughtful questions. As to Jehovah's reasons for choosing Israel, Jehovah explains at Deuteronomy 7:7-9: “It was not because you were the most numerous of all the peoples that Jehovah showed affection for you and chose you, for you were the smallest of all the peoples. *Rather, it was because of Jehovah’s love for you and because he kept the oath that he had sworn to your forefathers that Jehovah brought you out with a mighty hand, to redeem you from the house of slavery, from the power of Phar′aoh king of Egypt. *You well know that Jehovah your God is the true God, the faithful God, keeping his covenant and loyal love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments." In selecting one nation, I believe Jehovah purposed to demonstrate his qualities and dealings to all mankind, and to fulfill his promise to Abraham to bless all nations: " And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves." (Genesis 22:18)

 

[outhouse]

Millions of people see innumerable signs of Deity or God everywhere.

Oh! you mean imagination. Nice, but it proves nothing.



So far your whole thread has been a prime example of avoiding reason and knowledge in favor of nothing but faith. :slap:

 

[rusra02]

Oh! you mean imagination. Nice, but it proves nothing.



So far your whole thread has been a prime example of avoiding reason and knowledge in favor of nothing but faith. :slap:

Anyone can read my posts in this topic and see that evidence has been presented that indicates a Source of surpassing intelligence and power created life, and that life did not arise by an endless series of happy accidents. Such evidence has convinced scientists that life could not arise or develop by undirected natural forces, as it has millions of others. These are facts you should know, Outhouse. So, IMO,your claim that this "thread has been a prime example of avoiding reason and knowledge" really applies to those who deny the evidence for an intelligent Designer; evidence found in all living things.

 

[shawn001]

Anyone can read my posts in this topic and see that evidence has been presented that indicates a Source of surpassing intelligence and power created life, and that life did not arise by an endless series of happy accidents. Such evidence has convinced scientists that life could not arise or develop by undirected natural forces, as it has millions of others. These are facts you should know, Outhouse. So, IMO,your claim that this "thread has been a prime example of avoiding reason and knowledge" really applies to those who deny the evidence for an intelligent Designer; evidence found in all living things.

So the element carbon that all life on earth is based on came from where Rusra?

What was the atmosphere of the early earth made of and why did it change to what we see today and you breathing Oxygen?

How did our moon form?

Please answer those three questions.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Anyone can read my posts in this topic and see that evidence has been presented that indicates a Source of surpassing intelligence and power created life, and that life did not arise by an endless series of happy accidents. Such evidence has convinced scientists that life could not arise or develop by undirected natural forces, as it has millions of others. These are facts you should know, Outhouse. So, IMO,your claim that this "thread has been a prime example of avoiding reason and knowledge" really applies to those who deny the evidence for an intelligent Designer; evidence found in all living things.

The majority of scientists don't actually say anything in regards to god or a necessity of an intelligent being helping life along. This is because it has nothing to do with their work and it doesn't concern them.

The few that do have a near consensus that a divine force is not needed. To say that there is evidence that has convinced "scientists" in general to believe that there HAS to be a god directing this is slanderous to scientists, dishonest to yourself and irritating to the rest of us.

But by all means please list one single shred of actual evidence that isn't based on an argument from ignorance or fallacious that points to a designer or director.

 

[Bunyip]

Evolution claims life arose from a series of chance events. The Bible says life came from God. This quote regarding a "simple" prokaryotic cell, or a cell without a nucleus, demonstrates the impossibility of life arising from chance, IMO. (Quote from The Origins of Life - Five Questions Worth Asking published by Jehovah's witnesses)

"What does the evidence reveal? Advances in microbiology have made it possible to peer into the awe-inspiring interior of the simplest living prokaryotic cells known. Evolutionary scientists theorize that the first living cells must have looked something like these cells.

If the theory of evolution is true, it should offer a plausible explanation of how the first “simple” cell formed by chance. On the other hand, if life was created, there should be evidence of ingenious design even in the smallest of creatures. Why not take a tour of a prokaryotic cell? As you do so, ask yourself whether such a cell could arise by chance.

THE CELL’S PROTECTIVE WALL

To tour a prokaryotic cell, you would have to shrink to a size that is hundreds of times smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. Keeping you out of the cell is a tough, flexible membrane that acts like a brick and mortar wall surrounding a factory. It would take some 10,000 layers of this membrane to equal the thickness of a sheet of paper. But the membrane of a cell is much more sophisticated than the brick wall. In what ways?

Like the wall surrounding a factory, the membrane of a cell shields the contents from a potentially hostile environment. However, the membrane is not solid; it allows the cell to “breathe,” permitting small molecules, such as oxygen, to pass in or out. But the membrane blocks more complex, potentially damaging molecules from entering without the cell’s permission. The membrane also prevents useful molecules from leaving the cell. How does the membrane manage such feats?

Think again of a factory. It might have security guards who monitor the products that enter and leave through the doorways in the factory wall. Similarly, the cell membrane has special protein molecules embedded in it that act like the doors and the security guards.

Some of these proteins (1) have a hole through the middle of them that allows only specific types of molecules in and out of the cell. Other proteins are open on one side of the cell membrane (2) and closed on the other. They have a docking site (3) shaped to fit a specific substance. When that substance docks, the other end of the protein opens and releases the cargo through the membrane (4). All this activity is happening on the surface of even the simplest of cells."

That is just the beginning of the complexity encountered in so-called simple cells.

The two glaring misconceptions there just jeed to be cleared up to totally demolish your argument;

1. Evolution does not attampt to explain the origins of life.
2. Evolution and abiogenesis are not random chance processes anyway.

 

[rusra02]

So the element carbon that all life on earth is based on came from where Rusra?

What was the atmosphere of the early earth made of and why did it change to what we see today and you breathing Oxygen?

How did our moon form?

Please answer those three questions.

Since Jehovah is the Creator of the heavens and earth, I believe the answer is the same for all your questions. (Psalm 36:9)

 

[rusra02]

The majority of scientists don't actually say anything in regards to god or a necessity of an intelligent being helping life along. This is because it has nothing to do with their work and it doesn't concern them.

The few that do have a near consensus that a divine force is not needed. To say that there is evidence that has convinced "scientists" in general to believe that there HAS to be a god directing this is slanderous to scientists, dishonest to yourself and irritating to the rest of us.

But by all means please list one single shred of actual evidence that isn't based on an argument from ignorance or fallacious that points to a designer or director.

You misquoted what I actually said; "Such evidence has convinced scientists that life could not arise or develop by undirected natural forces, as it has millions of others." As to scientists being convinced that life could not have arisen by undirected natural forces, microbiologist Feng-Ling Yang said: "Well, when I began giving this serious thought in the late 1990’s, molecular biologists were beginning to realize that the chemistry of life is much more elaborate than anyone had previously thought. Of course, scientists had long known that the proteins in living cells are the most chemically sophisticated molecules in existence. But now, they were discovering how whole assemblies of proteins are organized to form elegant machines with moving parts. A molecular machine might be composed of over 50 proteins. And even the simplest cell needs a collection of different machines​—for example, to generate power, to duplicate information, and to control access across membranes. Well, I asked myself, ‘How did those protein machines become so well engineered?’ At the time, the unexpected complexity of cell chemistry made a number of scientists ask the same question. A professor of biochemistry in the United States published a book arguing that the molecular machines in living cells are so complex that they could not have originated randomly. I agreed. I felt that life must have been created."(Excerpt From: WATCHTOWER. “Awake!, January 2014.” )

 

[dannerz]

I think organic life is much more complex than the microscope reveals. Chaos does not give birth to order, generally. A random dead entropic universe wouldn't make precise complex structures.