WHY I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS GOD

[Deeje]

Read the comment I responded to. It has a grave error.

You simply cannot make that kind of equation that Ho Theos is "The God" and Theos is "God" because that's not the issue.

I didn't invent this....its from the Mounce interlinear on Biblegateway.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+1:1&version=MOUNCE

Theos without the article Ho is just meaning "Divinity", not "God". This level of mixing another language with English is not valid. I am no expert in Koine Greek, but this is absolutely basic. When a person makes this kind of commitment one should not be following an issuer so blindly but do some research.

I have done my research and its accurate as far as I am aware....
"Version Information
The Mounce Reverse Interlinear™ New Testament was originally created for a series of Greek-English interlinears published by Zondervan. Now it is available for general use at Bible Gateway and within other software applications.

The translation philosophy was to be sufficiently formal so it could function as an interlinear, but also as dynamic as possible to show students how to translate both words and meaning. Consequently, it sits between the ESV and NIV. For example, it does not always translate the same Greek word with the same English word since that information is supplied by the Greek, and it especially tries to maintain the distinction between dependent and independent constructions."
BillMounce.com and BiblicalTraining.org."

Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

Here is the Kingdom Interlinear translation which mirrors the same placement of the definite article as Mounce.

1 ᾿Εν In ἀρχῇ beginning ἦν was ὁ the λόγος, Word, καὶ and ὁ the λόγος Word ἦν was πρὸς toward τὸν the θεόν, God, καὶ and θεὸς god ἦν was ὁ the λόγος. Word.

The God, and God, is the same. Even in English. Unless of course you wish to make a distinction with a "god" with a simple g or something. Yet, this does not matter in Greek because there is no capitalising in it.

I am no Greek scholar but I do know that Greek has no indefinite article, so an addition of "a" or "an" is left to the translator's discretion. But the definite article is there for a reason. A god ("theos") in Greek is no more than a "divine mighty one" and can mean any of the Greek gods, despite them being horribly flawed. It in no way describes Yahweh exclusively. When applied to Jesus it describes him as well...a "divine mighty one". But Jesus is not equal to his Father as a deity.

When the apostle John was about to bow down to an angel he was told....
"Do horaō not mē do that! I am eimi a fellow servant syndoulos with you sy and kai · ho your sy brothers adelphos who ho hold echō to the ho testimony martyria about Jesus Iēsous. Worship proskyneō · ho God theos! For gar the ho testimony martyria about Jesus Iēsous is eimi the ho spirit pneuma of ho prophecy prophēteia.” (Mounce)

Also, you gave a strange Greek text of John 1:1 to me here. Which manuscript says "En Arche Eimi ho logos"? I have so far never seen "eimi" there.

Are you referring to "I AM" (e·goʹ ei·miʹ) ? In the Greek Scriptures, the phrase e·goʹ ei·mi is not limited to the rendering of words expressed by Jesus. "I am" is a commonly used expression.

So I shall await to see your manuscript of the Gospel of John that has this. Unless you are referring to another verse or another book. Also, there is no "Eimi" in this verse whatsoever. Also, eimi does not mean what you have said. Eimi means I am living, or I am existing. You have just said "was" as translation to Eimi, in a verse which does not have this word.

A comparison of the parallel accounts in the synoptic Gospels shows that the phrase e·goʹ ei·mi found at Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 (“I am he”) is a shorter way of expressing the more complete thought found at Mt 24:5, which is rendered “I am the Christ.”

Sorry Deeje, with all due respect, when you try to teach people a language, at least get your absolute basics right. Or please tutor me. Go ahead.

I can only offer what my research reveals. You are free to do your own research.

I would like to see this manuscript of the Bible that has this exact greek text you have given. I can tell you directly that since you seem to be directing at John 1:1, the greek transliteration you gave above is absolutely bogus. Someone duped you.

Either the Mounce Interlinear or the Kingdom Interlinear......both express similar thoughts on this topic IMO.
I do not feel "duped" at all.

 

[firedragon]

I didn't invent this....its from the Mounce interlinear on Biblegateway.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+1:1&version=MOUNCE

Well, whatever your source was, its bogus. When you make such claims Deeje, make sure you have done the research.

I asked 3 times. Show me the manuscript. Then you will find out that your source is bogus, whatever it is, or you have made a mistake. Dont repeat the same thing again. Its beneath you my friend.

I am no Greek scholar but I do know that Greek has no indefinite article, so an addition of "a" or "an" is left to the translator's discretion. But the definite article is there for a reason. A god ("theos") in Greek is no more than a "divine mighty one" and can mean any of the Greek gods, despite them being horribly flawed. It in no way describes Yahweh exclusively. When applied to Jesus it describes him as well...a "divine mighty one". But Jesus is not equal to his Father as a deity.

One doesnt have to be a greek scholar. But dont try to teach others when you have got your basics wrong. Its absurd to do that. Anyway, I have given my explanation, so repeating the same thing is not valid.

Are you referring to "I AM" (e·goʹ ei·miʹ) ? In the Greek Scriptures, the phrase e·goʹ ei·mi is not limited to the rendering of words expressed by Jesus. "I am" is a commonly used expression.

A comparison of the parallel accounts in the synoptic Gospels shows that the phrase e·goʹ ei·mi found at Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 (“I am he”) is a shorter way of expressing the more complete thought found at Mt 24:5, which is rendered “I am the Christ.”

It was a simple word I was referring to called "eimi" which you have translated absolutely wrong. None of what you just said are relevant. And again, let me say this for the 5th time. It is not eimi in that verse. Its "een".

Either the Mounce Interlinear or the Kingdom Interlinear......both express similar thoughts on this topic IMO.
I do not feel "duped" at all.

Alright. So give me the manuscript that says "En Arche, Eimi ho logos". Go ahead. I would like to see this.

Please Deeje, rather than making claims, just go and do the research, provide the manuscript, for which I have now asked for at least in two posts. Thats how you can have a valid discussion, not just making rhetorical statements.

Show me the manuscript. Deeje, there is absolutely no harm in accepting an error, and finding a good source. I have no beef with you on this matter. Note the En in the beginning. Epsilon, nu. Then after arche, its Eta, Nu.

Not eimi. Its Een.

Cheers.

P.S. Just to show you, check this manuscript out.

 

[Colt]

Jesus WAS the only Son of God. We are the children of God.

We are all sons of God. Jesus is a divine Son of God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I strongly disagree with your statement that "there really is just as much reason to believe in the Bible as the Quran". In my first post I explained why the christian concept of divine love is unique and different from the one expressed in the other religions. There is indeed much more reason to believe in Christ than in any other religion.

Plain Poppycock. Exclusive Love always fails. Look as to how a man dominated exclusive love of Christ has played out in this world.

It can be considered that all that can be used to prove Jesus is the Christ, can be used to prove all the Messengers are of God, that they are from the same spirit.

The Love for Christ then becomes all embracing. The Love is inclusive of Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, the Bab and Baha'u'llah and all that is from Christ, as one looks for the Light of Christ, no matter from where it shines.

Regards Tony

 

[Baroodi]

The fundamental reason why I believe that Christ is God, is that I find that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God and it is certainly a truth. This concept is fully convincing for me, it proves itself by itself and makes superfluous any other arguments . I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us to have faith in Him and trust Him, to make us understand that God loves us infinitely, that God is good and mercifull and that God is near to us so that we may totally trust Him and open our heart to Him, be in communion with Him and be saved.
There are other religions teaching that God is love, but the problem is to define what the word “love” means, because by itself it could be only a vague and generic concept.
The christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love: in fact God’s love actualizes in the acceptance of a terrible physical suffering; the God of the christian faith loves us so much that He is willing to suffer a painful death in order to save us. In the christian faith, love is not only a theoretical and vague concept; Christ’s Passion is a clear and concrete realization of the concept of divine love which teaches us what is the true meaning of love. I think that this christian idea of divine love is the highest possible concept of divine love and it is the fundamental reason why I believe that Christ is God.

how God can be killed by some people he created. How The Omnipotent God, come this way??

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus WAS the only Son of God. We are the children of God.

I think you are referring to earth (?) because isn't the angelic creation also sons of God _____________
Pre-human heavenly Jesus was the Son (S) of God whereas the rest are sons (s) .
Any thoughts about chapter 8 of Romans ______________
Please notice the use of the word ' sons ' ( plural )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

how God can be killed by some people he created.............................?

Please notice according to Psalms 90:2 God can Not be killed.
God is from everlasting to everlasting meaning No beginning and No ending for God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God the Father delegates powers and authority to subordinates. Jesus proved his power, authority and divinity when he returned from the death of his mortal body on his own volition. But even his beloved apostles doubted until they saw it with their own eyes.

Before God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to earth for us Jesus had a spirit body.
Since Jesus had to use different materialized bodies after his God resurrected Jesus - Acts 2:27 - then Jesus was Not resurrected in his mortal body.
If Jesus was in his mortal body he would have been recognized - Luke 24:16-27 - for example.

 

[Colt]

Before God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to earth for us Jesus had a spirit body.
Since Jesus had to use different materialized bodies after his God resurrected Jesus - Acts 2:27 - then Jesus was Not resurrected in his mortal body.
If Jesus was in his mortal body he would have been recognized - Luke 24:16-27 - for example.

Yes, true. The mortal body of Jesus returned to the elements. He returned in the form we will have at the resurrection.

 

[mmarco]

how God can be killed by some people he created. How The Omnipotent God, come this way??

You must understand that God lives His eternal life out of time. But God is omnipotent and He can assume the human nature and enter time and space as a human, and as a human He can suffer and die. In His eternal and out-of-time life, God the Father and God the Son always live in the unity of the Holy Spirit. But God has the power to enter the historical time and this is what He did out of love for us, in order to reach us in our weakness and our sufferings and comunicate to us the strength to believe and trust in His love for us, so that He can save us form our sinful and miserable life and lead us to the true and eternal life.

 

[Wrangler]

We are all sons of God. Jesus is a divine Son of God.

Jesus is not more of a son of God than any of his brothers and sisters. This is just trinitarian nonsense!

I am not more a child of my father because I came first than my younger siblings. Or do you deny Jesus said we were his brothers?

 

[Colt]

Jesus is not more of a son of God than any of his brothers and sisters. This is just trinitarian nonsense!

I am not more a child of my father because I came first than my younger siblings. Or do you deny Jesus said we were his brothers?

Jesus preexisted in heaven with the Father, he was both human and divine in one miraculous personality. He retuned on his own volition after his body was killed, then returned to heaven where he came from.

You aren't that kind of son of God.

 

[Colt]

Matthew 22:41-46 41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied. 43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'LORD'? For he says, 44"'The LORD said to my LORD: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."' 45If then David calls him 'LORD,' how can he be his son?" 46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, true. The mortal body of Jesus returned to the elements. He returned in the form we will have at the resurrection.

I find 1 Corinthians 15:40 is about two (2) body types: a celestial body (heavenly) and a terrestrial (earthly) body.
People like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 20:6; 2:10 have a first or earlier resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:20,23.
This is because they (with a celestial body) govern with Christ in Heaven for a thousand years over Earth - Revelation 5:9-10.
Whereas, the majority of people (includes people who died before Jesus' died - John 3:13; Acts 2:34; Matthew 11:11) can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection being restored to earthly life (terrestrial body) with the opportunity to live forever on Earth.

So, the first fruits are resurrected with a spirit body form in their heavenly resurrection.
The ' fruits that follow ', so to speak, are resurrected with a physical body in their earthly resurrection.
Remember: No one classed as ' unrighteous' (unjust) is called to heavenly life - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
So, those classed as 'unrighteous' (but Not wicked) will be resurrected on Earth.
Only the wicked are ' destroyed forever ' according to Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Thus, only some people will have a spirit body as Jesus' resurrected body, and the majority a physical earthly body.
This is why ALL the resurrections that Jesus performed were healthy physical resurrections restoring people to live life on Earth.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction of what he will do during his 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew 22:41-46 41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied. 43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'LORD'? For he says, 44"'The LORD said to my LORD: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet."' 45If then David calls him 'LORD,' how can he be his son?" 46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

I notice a reference ^ above ^ to Psalms 110.
In the King James please notice there are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned.
* Only one LORD is in all Upper-Case Letters.
* The other Lord is in some lower-case letters.
This is because the Tetragrammaton only applies to to LORD in all capital letters.
The Upper-Case LORD applies to God , and the lower-case Lord applies to Jesus.

 

[37818]

I notice a reference ^ above ^ to Psalms 110.
In the King James please notice there are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned.
* Only one LORD is in all Upper-Case Letters.
* The other Lord is in some lower-case letters.
This is because the Tetragrammaton only applies to to LORD in all capital letters.
The Upper-Case LORD applies to God , and the lower-case Lord applies to Jesus.

It refers to Jesus as the Man, 1 Timoty 2:5. Christ is both man and God, Ephesians 5:5. That is how many understand Him being the Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.

 

[Wrangler]

We are all sons of God. Jesus is a divine Son of God.

No where does the Bible suggest hierarchies of God's children. The Spirit of God is in all of God's children. This is what makes us both immortal and divine - starting with Jesus, our Lord and Savior.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus WAS the only Son of God. We are the children of God.

I think you are referring to earth (?) because isn't the angelic creation also sons of God _____________

No. I am not referring to Earth. I have noticed a common reading deficiency of online posters is to confuse the SUBJECT of a sentence with the OBJECT of a sentence. If I say 'Put the book on the table.' The subject is the one doing the acting. In this case, it is implied, You are to put the book on the table. You are the one doing the acting regardless of the object, table or Earth.

I am talking about God's children. God's children are of heaven, although some are now on Earth.

Pre-human heavenly Jesus was the Son (S) of God whereas the rest are sons (s) .

Prehuman Jesus is more trinitarian nonsense. He is a man, like any other man.

Capital and lowercase S referring to sons is more trinitarian nonsense. Again, no where in the Bible is it suggested that there is a hierarchy among God's children. Sure, some are first and some will get greater reward for their work, but just like women, men share equally in the grace of God.

Any thoughts about chapter 8 of Romans ______________
Please notice the use of the word ' sons ' ( plural )

Please be more specific, not only about what verse in Romans 8 but also what you are asking me beyond 'my thoughts' as I use several modern translations that may not be the same as yours. (It may use the gender neutral 'children.')

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus proved his authority and divinity weather you believe it or not.

Says you. The Bible is what I go and it says that Jesus WAS GIVEN authority (by the one and only God, Jesus' God, our God).

 

[Colt]

No where does the Bible suggest hierarchies of God's children. The Spirit of God is in all of God's children. This is what makes us both immortal and divine - starting with Jesus, our Lord and Savior.

You make black and white statements but then have to eat your word. Are you sure you have actually studied the Bible?

18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciplesd of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”