WHY I BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS GOD

[Wrangler]

Both Jesus and the Father are the one God; you cannot choose only one verse and disregards all the others; for example; John 20:28

This is an exclamation, not a statement of the nature of God. If someone drops a coffe cup on the floor and they exclaim ‘Oh crap,’ that does not mean the coffee or coffee cup are crap.

 

[Wrangler]

Both Jesus and the Father are the one God

Again, 2 do not a trinity make.

 

[Wrangler]

you cannot choose only one verse and disregards all the others

I’m not excluding all other verses, just demonstrating the most explicit and literal verses on point.

Jesus has a God. This is the only God. The title of Jesus is Anointed. This is a past tense action. Who Anointed Jesus? God.

 

[stvdv]

There are other religions teaching that God is love, but the problem is to define what the word “love” means, because by itself it could be only a vague and generic concept.

The christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love

False

Hinduism also gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love

 

[Audie]

False

Hinduism also gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love

The unique wonderfulness in all of this requires
putting down both atheists and all other faiths
with falsehoods and woo woo "science".

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

On the other hand, mathematical models are only constructions of the rational thought and a mathematical model can exist only as a thought in a thinking mind conceiving it; this implies that matter (and the physical reality) is not the foundation of reality, but its existence depends on a more fundamental reality i.e. consciousness: contrary to the basic hypothesis of materialism, consciousness is a more fundamental reality than matter.

So, do you deny that the mathematical models chosen or derived are what they are because we found that they fit (and indeed predict) the activities of matter and energy that we can observe? In other words - the physical realities of the universe/matter/energy/etc. are NOT "mathematical models" themselves. We humans have paired mathematical models and explanatory functionality to these observed phenomenon because they work to approximately describe the activities. It's not "math first, matter second." Our observation of matter was most certainly first. The earliest humans had zero concept of mathematical modeling. How was everything working if it takes the mind's understanding of reality to function as the foundation of reality?

...soul cannot have a physical origin, it can only be created directly by God...

Why "God" in particular though? Do you have some significant evidence that can tie this thing you call a "soul" directly to a being whose existence you can also provide evidence for? Oh... and first, please demonstrate the existence of a "soul." No point in trying to prove that God created a "soul" if we can't even determine whether or not the "soul" even exists first, am I right?

 

[mmarco]

I’m not excluding all other verses, just demonstrating the most explicit and literal verses on point.

Jesus has a God. This is the only God. The title of Jesus is Anointed. This is a past tense action. Who Anointed Jesus? God.

Yes, Jesus is God the Son and His God is God the Father. You must humbly accept that God in His essence is unknowable because He is far beyond our capacity of understanding; However God has made Himself knowable in the Person of Christ; in Christ we know His infinite love and goodness.

 

[mmarco]

This is an exclamation, not a statement of the nature of God. If someone drops a coffe cup on the floor and they exclaim ‘Oh crap,’ that does not mean the coffee or coffee cup are crap.

what?! Thomas is talking to Jesus and he calls Him "my God!. You are denying the obvious.

 

[mmarco]

The earliest humans had zero concept of mathematical modeling. How was everything working if it takes the mind's understanding of reality to function as the foundation of reality?

I have never said that "it takes the mind's understanding of reality to function as the foundation of reality"; what I said is that this mathematically structured universe can exist only if an intelligent and conscious mind conceives it as a mathematical model; of course, I was referring to the mind of God, the Creator of the universe.

Oh... and first, please demonstrate the existence of a "soul." No point in trying to prove that God created a "soul" if we can't even determine whether or not the "soul" even exists first, am I right?

I have already provided solid and rational arguments supporting the existence of the soul (defined as an unphysical/unbiological principle responsible for the existence of our consciousness) in my previous posts. Please read them more carefully.

 

[PureX]

The fundamental reason why I believe that Christ is God, is that I find that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God and it is certainly a truth.

What do you mean buy "highest concept"? What makes this conceptions of God "higher" than any other? And how is this "high concept" exclusive to God? Humans have sacrificed themselves, in love, for other humans. So why is God doing it exclusive in your mind, to God?

This concept is fully convincing for me, it proves itself by itself and makes superfluous any other arguments.

How? By what reasoning is it so fully convincing to you?

There are other religions teaching that God is love, but the problem is to define what the word “love” means, because by itself it could be only a vague and generic concept.
The christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love: in fact God’s love actualizes in the acceptance of a terrible physical suffering; the God of the christian faith loves us so much that He is willing to suffer a painful death in order to save us. In the christian faith, love is not only a theoretical and vague concept; Christ’s Passion is a clear and concrete realization of the concept of divine love which teaches us what is the true meaning of love. I think that this christian idea of divine love is the highest possible concept of divine love and it is the fundamental reason why I believe that Christ is God.

Again, Humans have gone through these same depths of suffering for their love of others, so why is Gods suffering so special to you? Also, who demanded all this suffering in the first place? If not God? Couldn't God have simply forgiven everyone without all that suffering?

I appreciate your honest declaration of faith. But now that you've presented it to us, you must expects that we would ask these kinds of questions.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I have never said that "it takes the mind's understanding of reality to function as the foundation of reality"; what I said is that this mathematically structured universe can exist only if an intelligent and conscious mind conceives it as a mathematical model; of course, I was referring to the mind of God, the Creator of the universe.

Why "mathematical" though? Would you agree that we basically created "math?" Yes, the potential was always there to model things using numbers and what became mathematical operations, but at one point, none of those things existed in any mind (except perhaps "God's" by your assumption, and if we entertain the notion that He exists). If God understands that "math" is fundamental to the foundations of reality, why didn't He provide us with better understanding of these foundations? Instead we had to stumble upon all of it ourselves, making our lives far more productive and comfortable in the process. Perhaps understanding math is sinful? If not - then why didn't He provide for us from the start? Why the long journey to understanding? I mean, ultimately, we of this age now simply stand on the shoulders of the giant thinkers who came before us, just as future generations may stand on the shoulders of today's greatest thinkers. So to say that "the journey" was somehow really important is just a cop out. None of us sitting here have taken that full journey, and yet we are able to benefit from it. God would have understood this as the ultimate outcome, I would think, if He gave us minds capable of producing mathematical understanding of reality. And so it makes no sense to simply put it off for the sake of putting it off - especially if it makes people's lives easier, and you are a being who claims to "love" those people.

I have already provided solid and rational arguments supporting the existence of the soul ... in my previous posts. Please read them more carefully.

Hmmm... unfortunately an "argument" isn't going to cut it here. Please provide evidence more carefully.

 

[Colt]

Oh, my mistake. I thought you were discussing the Christian God.

The Christian God is Love to. The Atheist God is Lucifer, he came up with the bright idea that the Universal Father didn't really exist......but ironically had no problem trying to make himself "God of Liberty" and "friend of men and angels".

The stubborn human self wants to be its own savior.

 

[SigurdReginson]

This is the point, the brain is nothing but a set of subatomic particles which properties are determined by the same laws of physics as in every other set of subatomic particles, such as an electric device.

Well, you aren't wrong, but if you only focus on the subatomic level of the brain, it won't tell you anything. It's like taking a picture with the zoom all the way up on your camera. All you will see are a few grass blades, and you'll miss out on seeing the whole rest of the scenerey.

When you look with a more of a zoomed out view, you can see how the brain's structure facilitates the environment for a consciousness to exist. This is where biology comes in. If you focus too much at the atomic/subatomic level, all you will see are those particles, and that won't tell you much of anything (outside of the structure of DNA). That's how it seems to me, at least.

All biological and chemical processes are nothing but successions of elementary physical processes , which is sufficient to prove that consciousness is irriducible to cerebral processes and transcends the physical/biological reality.

All biological and chemical processes are dictated due to the structure of the brain. It facilitates those processes. If you just looked at the elementary physical processes without taking that into account, it would seem like there needs to be more, but in taking into account that the function of the brain facilitates these reactions, it shows that the cerebral process is all encompassing. Consciousness is one of the byproducts of it's function; others include the subconscious or the autonomic processes that keep your body functioning.

I don't see how any of that is sufficient in proving that anything transcends material reality. We can see how this stuff works, and while the brain is super complex and we learn more all the time, nothing points to anything supernatural. Everything we learn grounds it more in material existence.

Consciousness is the result of the interaction between an unphysical/unbiological principle (the soul) and the brain.
Because of this interaction, cerebral damages affects of course also our conscious psychical life.

Consciousness doesn't need supernatural interference to exist. Do octopuses have souls, then? What about rats? These things also have consciousness; they also have nervous systems.

Where is there evidence of unphysical aspects of reality? Why does it need to exist when physical aspects can be studied, observed, and used to explain things in a consistent and seemingly accurate way? If the "unphysical" can't be studied, how do we even know it's real, and why should we incorporate it into our understanding of reality?

It seems like the damage he suffered was to the brain, and the result was what was plainly seen. He changed because his brain changed. It was rewired in an instant. The old person died, and in an attampt for the brain to repair itself, a new person was born. That new person was a byproduct, just like the person who existed previously; just like I am now a byproduct of my own brain.

Again; where does the "soul" part fit in?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The Atheist God is Lucifer.

I, an atheist, worship nothing. I see no point to it. Unless you water down the idea of "worship" so heavily that you'll include things like "hobbies", then your statement here is incorrect and, honestly, downright dumb.

The stubborn human self wants to be its own savior.

There is nothing to be "saved" from.

 

[Audie]

What do you mean buy "highest concept"? What makes this conceptions of God "higher" than any other? And how is this "high concept" exclusive to God? Humans have sacrificed themselves, in love, for other humans. So why is God doing it exclusive in your mind, to God?
How? By what reasoning is it so fully convincing to you?
Again, Humans have gone through these same depths of suffering for their love of others, so why is Gods suffering so special to you? Also, who demanded all this suffering in the first place? If not God? Couldn't God have simply forgiven everyone without all that suffering?

I appreciate your honest declaration of faith. But now that you've presented it to us, you must expects that we would ask these kinds of questions.

Minor variance- many a human has suffered far far more than Jesus did, for love of others.

 

[Wrangler]

You must humbly accept that God in His essence is unknowable

I reject this Appeal to Ignorance.

We know God because he revealed himself, long before a 1st century carpenter was born.

Not to say we know everything but one thing we know is God is not trinitarian in nature for the trinity is not found in his word. What verse states the nature of God is trinitarian - coequal, coeternal and co-substantial - and if you don’t believe this you cannot be saved?

Trinitarianism is idolatry, violating the 1C.

 

[Wrangler]

There is nothing to be "saved" from.

Except our destructive nature.

 

[Audie]

I, an atheist, worship nothing. I see no point to it. Unless you water down the idea of "worship" so heavily that you'll include things like "hobbies", then your statement here is incorrect and, honestly, downright dumb.

There is nothing to be "saved" from.

As with so many our other heros of the faith,
insulting falsehoods are vital underpinnings
of their worship of the God of !ove.

"Saved" is such a convoluted notion.

" god" decides what it doesn't like and sets the rules.
Then he sends forth his creation,
mdesignrd so it will break his rules.

So to save them from himself, he
arranges to have someone tortured.
To pay himself for...

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Christian God is Love to. The Atheist God is Lucifer, he came up with the bright idea that the Universal Father didn't really exist......but ironically had no problem trying to make himself "God of Liberty" and "friend of men and angels".

The stubborn human self wants to be its own savior.

No, there is no "Atheist God". But thank you for the laugh. And there are countless different versions of Christianity. In practically all of them the Christian God is not love.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As with so many our other heros of the faith,
insulting falsehoods are vital underpinnings
of their worship of the God of !ove.

"Saved" is such a convoluted notion.

" god" decides what it doesn't like and sets the rules.
Then he sends forth his creation,
mdesignrd so it will break his rules.

So to save them from himself, he
arranged ges to have someone tortured.
To pay himself for...

I am rather amazed that so many Christians cannot see this. One cannot believe in the Adam and Eve myth and honestly believe that God is love. The New Testament is not much better. The God of Paul is clearly not a God of Love.