why I choose not identify my religious stance using the word "atheist"

[anotherneil]

Can we not observe that religions or religious beliefs exist?

We can observe human behavior and activities; that would be what we're actually observing. Is there a way to observe religions or religious beliefs independently from human behavior and activities?

Do we not have a good idea of what religions or religious beliefs are?

I think we have a good idea of religions are; for example, we can see how they splinter off from splintered off religions, which - in turn - splintered off from other splintered off religions, etc.

We do sort of have a good idea of what some religious beliefs are; for example, there's the basic stuff - the belief in an after-life paradise that no one has observed or can explain where and/or how it exists, and belief in supernatural beings that we never observe and might not even be able to identify...well, at least I've never observed such things or gotten explanations on where and/or how they exist.

We can observe how useless, burdensome, and destructive they are or can be.

 

[anotherneil]

It's nice living where people don't ask

Even if they don't ask because they just assume what the answer is? That's what seems to happen, sometimes, such as when people say things like "we are Christians" when referring to Americans.

 

[Audie]

Even if they don't ask because they just assume what the answer is? That's what seems to happen, sometimes, such as when people say things like "we are Christians" when referring to Americans.

" We" here in China assume all Americans are
Christians.
At NYU I wasn't much aware of who was or wasn't.

But thats not much of a Chick tract campus.

And I always had my nose in a book.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Is there a way to observe religions or religious beliefs independently from human behavior and activities?

I would think much in the same way we would observe philately or philatelic practices independently from human behavior and activities.

 

[anotherneil]

" We" here in China assume all Americans are
Christians.
At NYU I wasn't much aware of who was or wasn't.

But thats not much of a Chick tract campus.

And I always had my nose in a book.

Are you aware that this assumption isn't true?

Is that assumption for any particular denomination of Christianity, or is there no distinction about this?

 

[anotherneil]

I would think much in the same way we would observe philately or philatelic practices independently from human behavior and activities.

You can observe stamps and stamp collections, and this can be achieved independently from human behavior and activities. A stamp can be held, examined, described (what the value is, what the image is, what the country is, what year it was made, plate block number, etc.), used/cancelled, lost, destroyed, traded, etc. What is analogous to a "stamp" and all of the things one can do with them in religion? I don't know of anyone who has ever taken a trip to heaven and brought back some object from there the way we can with souvenirs from some Caribbean island vacation; I don't know of anyone who has ever gotten an autograph, finger print, DNA sample, or picture with God or any other supernatural beings.

I'd be happy with a unique looking rock - "Hey that's an unusual looking rock; where'd you get it from?" "Oh, I got it while I was visiting heaven."

All I ever come across is books with tall tales, buildings people use to congregate for religious purposes, religious symbols, people who preach, people who wear religious outfits, people who do specific things because of their religious beliefs, people who don't do specific things because of their religious beliefs, and purely anecdotal explanations of things (such as that God intervened to prevent that shooter from assassinating Trump).

It's not my intention to sound cynical or condescending or anything like that; I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You can observe stamps and stamp collections, and this can be achieved independently from human behavior and activities. A stamp can be held, examined, described (what the value is, what the image is, what the country is, what year it was made, plate block number, etc.), used/cancelled, lost, destroyed, traded, etc. What is analogous to a "stamp" and all of the things one can do with them in religion? I don't know of anyone who has ever taken a trip to heaven and brought back some object from there the way we can with souvenirs from some Caribbean island vacation; I don't know of anyone who has ever gotten an autograph, finger print, DNA sample, or picture with God or any other supernatural beings.

I'd be happy with a unique looking rock - "Hey that's an unusual looking rock; where'd you get it from?" "Oh, I got it while I was visiting heaven."

All I ever come across is books with tall tales, buildings people use to congregate for religious purposes, religious symbols, people who preach, people who wear religious outfits, people who do specific things because of their religious beliefs, people who don't do specific things because of their religious beliefs, and purely anecdotal explanations of things (such as that God intervened to prevent that shooter from assassinating Trump).

It's not my intention to sound cynical or condescending or anything like that; I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

You make several Christian-based assumptions. I'm neither Christian, nor do I belong to an Abrahamic religion.

But I digress. What is analogous to a stamp (you've willingly and perhaps unwittingly already listed a few) would be places of worship, religious texts, religious idols, manifestations of divinity, and personal experiences.

 

[Audie]

Are you aware that this assumption isn't true?

Is that assumption for any particular denomination of Christianity, or is there no distinction about this?

I spent 5 yrs in USA, I figured that out.

As for deniminations, I don't think thats a topic of interest.

You understand perhaps that there's a certain hostility toward Islam and Christianity.

 

[anotherneil]

You make several Christian-based assumptions.

What are they? I'm curious & would like to know what you're referring to.

I'm neither Christian, nor do I belong to an Abrahamic religion.

Same with me & I also don't belong to any religion, in general.

But I digress. What is analogous to a stamp (you've willingly and perhaps unwittingly already listed a few) would be places of worship, religious texts, religious idols, manifestations of divinity, and personal experiences.

With what I was referring to, the places of worship, religious texts, and religious idols are not analogous to a stamp. The stamp is the thing to be proven as something that exists analogous to deities & afterlife.

Place of worship are no different from any other building constructed out of wood, brick, mortar, steel, etc. The existence of places of worship don't prove anything about the existence of deities or afterlife anymore than a convenience store, a widget factory, a hospital, or an outhouse does.

Religious texts are no different from works of fiction, instruction manuals, and recipes in that they're authored or written by human beings and published in hardcopy form on printing presses that were designed and constructed by human beings.

Same goes with religious idols; for example, the same type of wooden or ceramic materials used to construct them are also used to make chairs and soup bowls.

None of these man-made things or items are proof of the existence of deities or an afterlife; they are only things associated with a belief in the existence of such concepts.

What are perceived as manifestations of divinity can and have been explained as hoaxes, illusions, con artist deception, or scientifically explainable phenomenon that the perceiver didn't understand. Same applies to personal experiences that are believed to be the result of the existence of deities or an afterlife.

Notice that I'm not claiming that deities and an afterlife do not exist; I'm only referring to the belief in them & lack of proof of their existence in such a way that meets scientific scrutiny, as in being demonstrable, experimentally repeatable, measurable, etc.

 

[anotherneil]

I spent 5 yrs in USA, I figured that out.

Ok; I sort of expected that you might have given that you spent time here in the US.

As for deniminations, I don't think thats a topic of interest.

Makes sense; I sort of expected this too. I didn't know that there were different denominations of Muslims and Jews until later in life, but there are & in the same way, I don't think that's a topic of interest to many Americans who are Christians, or who come from a Christian family & upbringing (like me).

You understand perhaps that there's a certain hostility toward Islam and Christianity.

Yes, I do, and it includes other religions such as Judaism. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up, though.

I, myself, don't have any hostility towards any religion, nor have I ever expressed such hostility; what I do have a problem is with my own government trying to impose religion on me or anyone else (which infringes on the 1st clause of the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution), or my own government trying to prohibit anyone from practicing their religious beliefs (which infringes on the 2nd clause of the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution).

 

[endlessvoid2018]

I am wondering if there is a more specific label out there for someone who kind of thinks the way I do without being called an atheist. I find most religious concepts of the afterlife, god or gods, and altogether in general just man-made BS.

However, even though I don't believe in any of those notions, it doesn't mean I don't really believe in anything in general. Also don't believe it's possible to know one way or another. And not sure I really even care that much, either. At least not enough to have it merit any significant change in my life, even if I did believe in any kind of god in any capacity.

Actual titles that might fit better for someone like myself in particular might be Agnostic, Apatheist, or possibly even Apathetic Agnostic, essentially a form of Apatheism.

Although I care about specific things involving the belief in god, discussions, thoughts, etc, I don't care about my own specific beliefs, as they are irrelevant to me since they aren't going to change how I live my life one way or another. I guess this would be a kind of Apatheism.