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Why I detest the JW

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
The JW [***staff edit***] is a very nasty one and has caused a lot of unnecessary suffering by forbidding blood transfusions. Our adopted Down's Syndrome son, of Greek-Cypriot origin, was 16 months old when he needed a blood transfusion to save his life, as he has blood condition, which is rare here in the UK. A couple of days after he had the transfusion two JWs turned up on our doorstep. Normally I would say, 'No thank you', as I shut the door, but that day I challenged them. I told them our lovely boy would be dead if he hadn't the transfusion, they said he would have been better off dead rather than having blood from a donor! As you can imagine my response was less than polite as I chased them off our property!

Our son is now 32, and whilst he is quite severe learning difficulties he is the most wonderful person you could wish to meet, and loved by everyone who knows him. My husband, myself, our birth daughters and grandchildren are thrilled to have him in our lives. :)

Well said. I'm glad the blood transfusion could save your son's life.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think that people should not place their hostility upon the individual of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
It should be rightly placed on their dogmas.
If you show hate to a JWs it only confirms their belief that the world is wicked and that they need the organization because of that.
They say I hate them. Oh, brother! Nobody can explain to me how that conclusion has been reached.
I hate their dogma.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
The JW [***staff edit***] is a very nasty one and has caused a lot of unnecessary suffering by forbidding blood transfusions. Our adopted Down's Syndrome son, of Greek-Cypriot origin, was 16 months old when he needed a blood transfusion to save his life, as he has blood condition, which is rare here in the UK. A couple of days after he had the transfusion two JWs turned up on our doorstep. Normally I would say, 'No thank you', as I shut the door, but that day I challenged them. I told them our lovely boy would be dead if he hadn't the transfusion, they said he would have been better off dead rather than having blood from a donor! As you can imagine my response was less than polite as I chased them off our property!

Our son is now 32, and whilst he is quite severe learning difficulties he is the most wonderful person you could wish to meet, and loved by everyone who knows him. My husband, myself, our birth daughters and grandchildren are thrilled to have him in our lives. :)

The JW are just flat wrong about this. There is no scripture to justify this belief, it must be something they made up.

God bless your son.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I, for one, do not know it that is a joke or a real story that is funny.
I've never had a Jehovah's Witness volunteer the information that he was a Jehovah's Witness. Is this common? I've always had to ask, and when I've asked, they tell me they are.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I've never had a Jehovah's Witness volunteer the information that he was a Jehovah's Witness. Is this common? I've always had to ask, and when I've asked, they tell me they are.
I think it is common that they do not say, "I am a Jehovah's Witness". I was one for about twenty years and I did not say it often. I don't think I ever said it to a person at their door. But, I said it to people that I met if asked, "what do you do?" and if saying so seemed suited to what I thought I might say after.
 
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Akivah

Well-Known Member
Blood transfusions are not as safe as people have been led to believe. It has been acknowledged by many clinicians as a harmful procedure these days, carrying more risk of morbidity and death than any other procedure in medicine.

Why experts are rethinking blood transfusions - Health & Wellbeing

Shalom Deeje

Your linked article does not support what you posted about it. The medical experts in this article are simply saying that blood can be used more effectively than has been done in the past. I think the quote was "Why use two [i.e. pints], when one will do?".

To transfuse, or not to transfuse?
While there are still unanswered questions on how, when and why blood transfusions are carried out, McJames says there are many medical situations in which a blood transfusion is the only option. And in these situations, it can make the difference between life and death.

{snip}

Half a million Australians donate blood and McJames says it's important that we don't lose sight of the fact that blood transfusions are still life-saving.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Blatantly dishonest. Trying to spin total number of deaths as being more significant in actual rate of death is dishonest.[/QUIOTE]
So your agenda didn't like those stats. :p


Yes. In the same way that saying "More people have died choking on leaves of lettuce than have ever died drinking a pint of mercury" is a blatant misrepresentation of the comparative dangers of eating lettuce and drinking mercury.
Gobbledegook........................


I clicked on just one of the above, a report from 1993, and offering no evidence.:-
Physicians as well as their patients are quite familiar with the ever growing list of complications of transfusion. Blood is usually administered by physicians with the nearly unchallenged view that failure to transfuse would have dire consequences. Evidence supporting that view is very difficult to obtain.
....duh! :p

I've already provided links to a study that JWs die at a 1% higher rate than non-JWs, and that it is accounted for by use of bloodless surgeries. I find it curious that you're asking me for statistics for my claims when you made lots of claims earlier and didn't provide a single shred of evidence.
Special pleading!
You haven't found one, have you..... not one infant death for lack of a transfusion where a coroner has judged that to be the cause of death.

Why? What do cot deaths have to do with death rates from transfusions compared with bloodless surgery?
A fair comparison to show your prejudice.

Blood transfusions being OVERUSED is a different matter entirely from whether or not blood transfusions are SAFE, and is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether refusing a blood transfusion is SAFER than accepting one. You're clearly confusing two issues and conflating them.
........... Special pleading, yet again. We don't care whether correctly administered desease free transfusions are safe, we are debating whether the JW decision to refuse them is bad, wicked, wrong. And so far you don't have a single example of a Judged death under such circumstances.

Transfusions are overused =/= Transfusions are unsafe.
Irrelevant...................

Do you stand by Deeje's statement that blood transfusions carry "more risk of morbidity and death than any other procedure in medicine"?
I have never investigated that any more than you have.
Why not cut down on the self-righteous judgemental attitudes of JWs? They live very healthy lives, you know.
:)
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
not one infant death for lack of a transfusion where a coroner has judged that to be the cause of death.
Really @oldbadger
Transfusion is a treatment for something else. When a person dies it is the something else that is the reason. So, if a child died from bleeding the reason isn't that she didn't have a transfusion. The reason is that she bled out.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why not cut down on the self-righteous judgemental attitudes of JWs? They live very healthy lives, you know.
@oldbadger
They live their lives just like other people live their lives. Not all JWs live "healthy lives".
Some are overweight.
Some fight with their spouses.
Some drive recklessly.
Some drink too much.
Some have unprotected sex.

They are just like other people who exercise their consciences.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Attacking does not necessarily require violence, you are doing a grand job of attacking me, hence my retaliation.
I don't chase people off my property.

If that sign works bring it on, the message is don't force your faith on those who don't want it.
Oh please! You cannot turn your telly on without being sold stuff you don't want.
Cjut down on the hysterics and take deep breaths.

Interesting that you are clueless about the neighborhood watch scheme, what sort of ghetto do you live in?
Neighbourhood watch hopes to reduce crime and loss, not religious people who want to call.

The fact that are interfering in others lives unsolicited means they are not polite, if they were polite they would make an appointment.
You're too sensitive, really. Honestly.
And much too aggressive to callers. :p

You can think what you want, i do not lie. Perhaps a concept you are unaware of.
:shrug:
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
So your agenda didn't like those stats. :p
You haven't provided any stats - I have. Do you understand what a death rate is and the difference in significance between "number of people killed" and "rate of death"?

I clicked on just one of the above, a report from 1993, and offering no evidence.:-
You don't know how PubMed works? The full article is linked that includes a full breakdown of their methodology and results:
http://www.amjmed.com/article/0002-9343(93)90171-K/pdf

Sorry it's too old, but unless you have more contemporary data then it's the bench-line we're starting from.

Also, admitting that you only clicked one link (and then didn't even bother to read further than the abstract) doesn't make you look good.

Special pleading!
Where?

You haven't found one, have you..... not one infant death for lack of a transfusion where a coroner has judged that to be the cause of death.
Well here's one:
Teenage Jehovah's Witness refuses blood transfusion and dies

Here's two more:
Refusal of blood transfusions key to deaths of 2 Jehovah's Witnesses, coroner finds

Here's another:
Pregnant Jehovah's Witness dies after refusing blood transfusion for Leukemia | Daily Mail Online

A fair comparison to show your prejudice.
What the hell are you talking about? What do cot deaths have to do with blood transfusions and what would they possibly suggest about my prejudice? Are you seriously going to argue that because cot death occurs it somehow justifies denial of blood transfusions?


........... Special pleading, yet again.
I don't think you know what special pleading is.

We don't care whether correctly administered desease free transfusions are safe, we are debating whether the JW decision to refuse them is bad, wicked, wrong. And so far you don't have a single example of a Judged death under such circumstances.
There are several that people have mentioned in this thread already. Also, you're moving the goalposts. I specifically took issue with your assertion of the dangers of blood transfusions - my argument is one of facts, not morals. Get your story straight.


Irrelevant...................
No, it isn't. YOU are the person who brought up overuse of transfusions as if that somehow indicated their use was negative.

I have never investigated that any more than you have.
Why not cut down on the self-righteous judgemental attitudes of JWs? They live very healthy lives, you know.
:)
So you're unwilling to admit that Deeje told an outright lie?

Ball's in your court now. Please demonstrate the claims you've made: that blood transfusions are more dangerous than denying blood transfusions.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I don't belong to a creed or denomination, I am part of the body of Christ and the teacher I mostly study with is Dr. Tony Evans

No? Over 3000 Creeds in Christianity and you are sparate from them all? OK.... :shrug:

Me, thinking of you, in bed, tonite? :D
No....... you should see my Missus.

I look in to Dr Tony Evans and get back with anything which I might find.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
................. I am part of the body of Christ and the teacher I mostly study with is Dr. Tony Evans

Yeah...... a very interesting priest, Doctor Tony Evans is.
Now if he or his would for any reason call to my home, I would definitely give him respect, hospitality, and offer food and drink, but if a JW was here at the time I would not turn either away.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I don't chase people off my property.


Oh please! You cannot turn your telly on without being sold stuff you don't want.
Cjut down on the hysterics and take deep breaths.


Neighbourhood watch hopes to reduce crime and loss, not religious people who want to call.


You're too sensitive, really. Honestly.
And much too aggressive to callers. :p


:shrug:


I will chase anyone not invited off my property and i have every right to do so.

I have the choice of watching tv.

Ahh more put down, so pathetic

So how do we know they are religious people and not crooks casing the property? Sorry you don't like my desire not to be hassled be religious sales morons, but as a person of honour surely respect my desire for privacy. Or perhaps not.

Ahh, once again the old put down, you know fa about me other than i desire privacy in the sanctify of my own home. You don't like it try cold calling sometime and see where it gets you.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I will chase anyone not invited off my property and i have every right to do so.
Well, in that case best put up signs to warn intended visitors of your confrontational and aggressive nature. Best commence your security at boundaries of property, and invest in decent access control system, rather than penny pinch on your loss prevention, thus resulting in hysterical rants on front door and unnecessary chasing around grounds.

So how do we know they are religious people and not crooks casing the property? Sorry you don't like my desire not to be hassled be religious sales morons, but as a person of honour surely respect my desire for privacy. Or perhaps not.
Receive who you wish at your home, but save your rants against harmless callers for the real bad-folks, is my suggestion.

........you know fa about me ..............
Yet I learn a little more, every time we meet.
:)
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Really @oldbadger
Transfusion is a treatment for something else. When a person dies it is the something else that is the reason. So, if a child died from bleeding the reason isn't that she didn't have a transfusion. The reason is that she bled out.
Hello Savage! :D
What? Like when a raving lunatic armed with a Kalashnikov assault rifle barges into a bar, sees the intended target, screams his fury and empties the gun into the man, who is deceased and passed on (Over? Under?) even before he hits the floor.
News Flash!
Nast Joe Wenlock falls dead in bar and bleeds to death!

What? Like that? No need to mention that he got shot 28 times?

Anyway....... How Ya Doin'? I read a post of yours where you wrote that you are no longer a JW, and I note that your membership box says 'none' to religion. You could always come over here and join the Studd Hill Full Moon Frolickers, Savage. It's a very wicked group...... but so much fun! :D
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I look in to Dr Tony Evans and get back with anything which I might find.

Not that I care what you think, but, I will eagerly wait!


Yeah...... a very interesting priest, Doctor Tony Evans is.

Tony Evans is not a priest, he is a pastor, big difference!


Now if he or his would for any reason call to my home, I would definitely give him respect, hospitality, and offer food and drink, but if a JW was here at the time I would not turn either away.

I don't and wouldn't turn a witness away, gives me a chance to tell them the real "Truth", not a truth with an expiration date!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hello Savage! :D
What? Like when a raving lunatic armed with a Kalashnikov assault rifle barges into a bar, sees the intended target, screams his fury and empties the gun into the man, who is deceased and passed on (Over? Under?) even before he hits the floor.
News Flash!
Nast Joe Wenlock falls dead in bar and bleeds to death!

What? Like that? No need to mention that he got shot 28 times?
Cute! Being shot was what was done, not what wasn't done, but, good try!

Anyway....... How Ya Doin'? I read a post of yours where you wrote that you are no longer a JW, and I note that your membership box says 'none' to religion. You could always come over here and join the Studd Hill Full Moon Frolickers, Savage. It's a very wicked group...... but so much fun! :D
Thank you. It sounds good! Honestly, If I could go back in time and change that I got baptized as JW I would not. I mean, oh my goodness! It is the fact that I was a JW which led me here. I wouldn't give up you guys for the world. Also, I get to be annoying everybody about the Bible. Can nobody imagine how much fun that is?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Did they die?
Please may we see the editorial about these children?
I wouldn't ask but your agenda is so distorted that I absolutely would need to know their names, and the outcome of their illnesses, and if they dies, what was the cause of death.

From memory (it was back in 1994) these children had terminal conditions (like leukemia) and blood transfusions were routinely administered to patients, not to save their lives but to prolong them marginally in association with chemotherapy. All of the children in that article went before a judge and personally testified to their own conviction that consuming blood was against the law of God and that it was their personal conviction to refuse that therapy.

They had no fear of death because each of them knew that there was nothing medically that could be done to save them. More treatments that made them sicker and only prolonged their suffering was not something they, or their parents wanted to endure. Adults can make those determinations for themselves, but children are at the mercy of the medical system.

What the poster failed to determine is that the children of Jehovah's Witnesses are legally taken out of their care if medical authorities deem that a certain treatment is in the best interests of minor patients. Legally forced treatments can then be administered against the parent's wishes and indeed against the child's express wishes.
One of the young girls testified that administering a blood transfusion against her will was virtually the same as rape.

In each case the judge deemed that the child was sincere in their own conscientious beliefs and could stand before him and express those beliefs without their parents being present. The children all died because their conditions were terminal, not because they refused a transfusion.

A little more information and a lot less prejudice would make people take notice of what many in the medical profession already know....blood is tantamount to a liquid organ transplant. As with any foreign substance administered to a body, it throws the immune system into immediate action to fight off the invader. Blood is not a drug.....it is living tissue that is going to interact with other living tissue in a foreign body. Our immune system is the only thing between us and death and transfusion has the immune system fighting the foreign invader rather than helping fight the disease.

Blind prejudice is never a good platform from which to launch an attack. Misinformation is what is being disseminated here.

What people also fail to consider is the financial interests of the blood industry. It is a multi-million dollar cash cow which its administrators are not in a hurry to lose. Propaganda makes sure that people's fears are put to rest despite the medical authorities stating that there is 'increased morbidity and mortality attached to blood transfusion medicine than any other procedure'.

If you were offered a procedure that had increased morbidity (made patients' conditions worse) and mortality (death) how could anyone choose it without being deceived as to a likely outcome.

Please watch this video from the National Blood Authority in Australia. (link below) See what happens when a blood transfusion is administered as opposed to when a saline solution is used as a volume expander.
Listen to what these clinicians have to say who are experts in their field. How anyone can say that blood transfusions are safe is beyond me. The medical establishment has this under the banner of "still saving lives" and yet the information in the video says the opposite. I wonder why? To any logical thinking person, the risks far outweigh the benefits as these doctors clearly state.

For Media | National Blood Authority

Thank you again OB for defending us as brilliantly as you do. It is rare to find someone who has no malice towards someone just because you disagree with them or their beliefs.
 
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