That’s correctAre you telling us that other prophets may come ?
With eventually others Books adapted to their time ?
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That’s correctAre you telling us that other prophets may come ?
With eventually others Books adapted to their time ?
Oh dear, some hard questions from me.
1. The apostle of Barabas was not considered holy by the Chrisitans, so, there was no need for Allah to tell them, it is not from God. But Book of revelation was being part of the holy books of Chrisitans and was believed to be an inspiration from God, so, if it was not really from God, He would have asked them not to use it.
2. Some of the verses of Quran are allusions. They are revealed in a brief and condensed form. The verse I was referring is 5:111
"And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims".
It is not like, just Allah said one sentence to them "be muslims". This is just an allusion to a fact the Allah was making communications with them. They were inspired men, not just an ordinary believers. Why would God inspired them, but He does not directly inspire me and you? It is because they had a mission, and that was writing the Bible!
The verses of Quran are meant to ponder upon.
3. I read many Hadithes in arabic, and to me they are consistently classical Arabic.
I don't have knowledge of various hadith types you are referring. To me, it has no benefit. When I find a hadith, I compare with Quran. If it is compatible with Quran, and has its roots in Quran I take as authentic. If it contradicts Quran, I don't consider it authentic. I don't believe to classify hadithes as weak, strong, Hassan,...etc is any proof for authenticity. If a weak hadith is compatible with Quran, I take it as authentic. If a strong hadith contradicts quran, I take it as a false hadith.
Well, the problem was, some think if it is said Mahdi is an Imam, He cannot be a Messenger and Prophet. Whereas, the hadithes says, He comes with a new Book. He will abrogate all that came before Him, and will bring something new that was never before. Other Hadithes indicates, God gives Mahdi all that was given to other Prophets plus more. In fact, knowledge is said to be like 27 letters. All prophets, including Muhammad had revealed only 2 letters. The rest comes with Mahdi.Imam just means leader, all Messengers were sent to obeyed by God's permission, hence all leaders.
If the tradition of al-kafi was true, all the time Abraham had a community of believers till old age, he was not the guiding leader, but just their Messenger and Prophet, and their leader would be someone else.
The fact is with Nubuwa comes leadership, with Messengership leadership. But leadership can be not in the open and hence neither with Messengership or Nubuwa.
There are hadiths in Alkafi that show Imammate is a position of all Prophets and something that automatically comes with them as well, like the long one from Imam Reda (as) in there.
The hadithes says, Mahdi is from the lineage of Muhammad through Fatimah. You think just because someone has lineage of Muhammad, He just becomes His successors and subordinate to Muhammad. Was not Muhammad from lineage of Ishamael? Would that make Muhammad successor of Ishamael?I don't have time to translate all of the hadiths, but there are a lot that say the Mahdi is one of the Twelve Successors of Mohammad and many hadiths that say there are twelve successors to Mohammad!
1. The apostle of Barabas was not considered holy by the Chrisitans, so, there was no need for Allah to tell them, it is not from God. But Book of revelation was being part of the holy books of Chrisitans and was believed to be an inspiration from God, so, if it was not really from God, He would have asked them not to use it.
2. Some of the verses of Quran are allusions. They are revealed in a brief and condensed form. The verse I was referring is 5:111
"And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims".
3. I read many Hadithes in arabic, and to me they are consistently classical Arabic.
Well, the problem was, some think if it is said Mahdi is an Imam, He cannot be a Messenger and Prophet. Whereas, the hadithes says, He comes with a new Book. He will abrogate all that came before Him, and will bring something new that was never before. Other Hadithes indicates, God gives Mahdi all that was given to other Prophets plus more. In fact, knowledge is said to be like 27 letters. All prophets, including Muhammad had revealed only 2 letters. The rest comes with Mahdi.
The hadithes says, Mahdi is from the lineage of Muhammad through Fatimah. You think just because someone has lineage of Muhammad, He just becomes His successors and subordinate to Muhammad. Was not Muhammad from lineage of Ishamael? Would that make Muhammad successor of Ishamael?
If a weak hadith is compatible with Quran
I didnt say "Apostle Barnabas", i said "Epistle of Barnabas" and it was in the Bible though you say it wasnt "Considered". If it was not considered, why do you think it was in the Bible?
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See, you cant cherry pick one verse, and from that two further cherry pick three words and make a doctrinne out of it. This verse doesnt say at all that the disciples were "Inspired to write Gods word". In fact, it doesnt even stop by saying "I inspired" which is why you have cherry picked that bit. Strange.
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It says "“And I inspired the disciples: ‘You shall believe in Me and My messenger;’ they said: ‘We believe, and bear witness that we have submitted.’”"
Its making them believe in God and Messenger the Quran is speaking about. Not this Gods word writing inspiration you are trying to imply. Read the rest of the verse too. Its quite simple.
You keep saying this, but when asked a simple questin about it you completely avoid answering.
And I honestly see the Bahai "sacred" Writing includes Kitabal Aqdas no where near the level of Quran. Sure anyone can talk about light and Irfan stuff, but the design of Quran is a whole different level of guidance and Bahai writing are not anywhere near the Quran.
I quote wikipedia:
Eusebius (260/265 – 339/340), excluded it from "the accepted books", classifying it as among the "rejected" or "spurious" (νόθοι) writings, while also applying to it, as to many others, the term "the disputed books"
Epistle of Barnabas - Wikipedia
It is a logical deduction. Cherry picking is if I ignore other verses of Quran, which says, God asked people of the Book to read and stand by their Scriptures which was available at the time of Muhammad. If those Books were not really from God, why Quran asks them to follow them?
قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَسْتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ حَتَّىٰ تُقِيمُوا التَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنجِيلَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلَيَزِيدَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم مَّا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ
"Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith." 5:68
So, who wrote the Injil that this verse 5:68 is talking about?
Question: to be a Muslim, is it enough to only say, we believe in God and His Messenger, or they were also required to obey the teachings and laws of God? Please answer this first!
"Muslim" means one who submits to God! How could they submit to God? They could submit, only if they knew what God wants them to do, and what is the Right way of living that God expects from them. How could they know the right way God wants from them? Only if they know the Religion of God and His teachings! Those teachings are the Revelation of Injil! Yes, God had inspired them with correct teachings of Injil! So, they must have known Injil very well, so, they could believe in God and His messenger, and obey God!
It is irrelevant.
So tell me please.
You skipped many of my questions! I quoted the verse, that Allah says, desciples were helpers of Allah. You have no answer how they helped Allah in practical terms.Brother. Please understand this sentence.
"Epistle of Barnabas was in the Bible".
Do you deny that?
You are quoting Eusebius, thats patristic quotations. But even after Eusebius, the bible had the epistle of barnabas.
Also, it seems like your criteria of "Gods word" is "Christians followed it". Thats a strange standard. A strange foundation.
In that case please answer for other books that was in the Bible, Christians followed it, then later in the 5th century Christians removed it. So according to your standard It was Gods word, then suddenly because Christians didnt include them later they seized to be Gods word.
1. Epistle of Barnabas
2. Epistle of Clement
3. 2nd Epistle of Clement
4. Shepard of Hermas.
I asked about all four of these but it was not responded to.
You asked me "Who wrote the Injil" based on that verse. Where in verse does it say the Injil was a reading, writing, or recital?
If you think the Bible or the New Testament is "The Gospel", you have to prove it, not just say "I believe so" or say "Christians believed so".
Who told you that based on this verse Muslims are only those who believe in God and his messenger? Does the verse say so? NOPE.
Also, who told you Muslims are not "Those who believe in God and his messenger"?
They know what to do because the messenger instructs them.
But what you are trying your best to do is with all of this irrelevant arguments argue that Jesus's disciples were inspired by Allah to write Gods word and the New Testament is Gods word. YOU ARE WRONG.
Not a single person who ever met Jesus ever wrote anything in any of the books of the Bible. There is no evidence to it. No one who write anything in the Bible ever claim to be a disciple of Jesus.
Brother. When you make claims like "All ahadith and Quranic languages are the same" you have made the gravest error one could make. So i keep asking you simple questions that makes a difference in languages between both but you are always avoiding the question like a plague then you would move on to another argument.
Can you tell me how to write this in arabic? And can you tell me how the writer of Bihar (Majlis) you keep quoting all over the place, differs from the Quranic arabic. Its a simple question. I ask you because you claim something.
"LUCY"
So tell me please.
Peace.
You skipped many of my questions! I quoted the verse, that Allah says, desciples were helpers of Allah. You have no answer how they helped Allah in practical terms.
If you read the verses of Quran, you will see in many cases, Allah asks those Christians who lived at the time of Muhammad must stand by the Injil. In other cases, Quran even says, Muhammad is mentioned in the Scriptures that is in the hands of people who live at the time of Muhammad. Which Injil, Quran is asking Chrisitans to stand by? If you say, it is not the Injil that was among Chrisistians, then which one is it that God is talking about? How could Christian's know what Injil says so that can stand by it if the Book that was in their hands was not the true Injil? Moreover, why there is no verse in Quran to say, their Book is corrupted?
I notice many Muslims think there are 4 Injils. This is just how people named the book of John, Luke, Mike, and Thomas.
But, what Quran intends by Injil, is the Revelation of Jesus, meaning, All teachings of Christ, and all prophecies about future events such as next prophet and Judgement Day. Thus, if we consider, Injil is really all these informations regarding commandments, laws and prophecies, we would see, all of it is contained in new testament. For, when you read the whole testament, you get a clear view about divine laws and ordinances as well as future prophecies. Thus, when Quran asks Chrisitans to stand by Injil, It certainly means, the teachings and prophecies in new testament. What else could Quran be referring to? Even if, some of the other books, such as Clement was among books of new testament, it cannot be said, it is no longer Injil, for even those other books, essentially elaboration on the teachings of Christ. Either way, the Chrisitans always gave more importance to the writings of apostles.
Moreover, the problem with the idea that the Injil was never written properly according to the will of God, is, a blasphemy to God. Do you know why? Because, it is claiming that God was incapable of providing the guidance He intended and left Chrisitans with a false holy Book for 600 years. Between Jesus and Muhammad, there are 600 years! So, you say, God revealed Injil to Jesus, so it may be a guidance to people of that time, but, God failed to even give a Book of guidance to them after taking Jesus up. Was God powerless?
I think, this is just a wishful idea for some Muslims. They like to think only their own Holy Book is perfect, and all other people have false holy books. I can see why you like to believe this. I think, it gives a sense of proud to Muslims.
It would not matter what was said, in the end 6:39 offers a judgement between main stream Islamic thought and what the Bab and Baha'u'llah offered.
"But those who deny Our verses are deaf and dumb within darknesses. Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - He puts him on a straight path."
As such, Allah Will is unfolding in precisely that way and it is up to us to choose what is applicable to our own self, from that verse.
Peace be with you and all.
Regards Tony
Doesn’t say anything related.
It gives an alternate response to the OP post, a possible reason why a person can not see the Mahdi in the Bab and the 'Glory of God' in Baha'u'llah, thus this is that Quran verse repeated to consider in that light.
6:39 "But those who deny Our verses are deaf and dumb within darknesses. Whomever Allah wills - He leaves astray; and whomever He wills - He puts him on a straight path."
Peace be with you and all, what a great day we live in.
Regards Tony
You skipped many of my questions! I quoted the verse, that Allah says, desciples were helpers of Allah. You have no answer how they helped Allah in practical terms.