Why I left Baptist Christianity and ultimately Christianity itself

[metis]

Yes and no. I am not sure "change" is the right word. Some of his views changed but his core message did not. I am not sure what you mean here, but I often hear people think that when he left NOI he all of a sudden became MLK Jr-like. This is not so.

He didn't go as far as MLK, but he renounced his own racism and hostility, which is why he was assassinated by one of Farrakhan's henchman.

 

[Curious George]

He didn't go as far as MLK, but he renounced his own racism and hostility, which is why he was assassinated by one of Farrakhan's henchman.

It was because of this renunciation or it was because of his split and criticism of Elijah Muhammad?

 

[Jumi]

It seems to me that you need different types of folks working with the same goal in mind to get results. I'm a naturally peaceful guy, but I also know the tragedy. Dying for something as stupid as racist hate or religious differences have got to be one of the topmost disgusting things.

 

[metis]

It was because of this renunciation or it was because of his split and criticism of Elijah Muhammad?

Both, as he went on the Haj, he realized that what he had been taught was wrong, and converted to Islam-- not the bastardized version that he had been taught in prison.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This your opinion...Doesn't change the fact that out of everything that was written, you decide to keen in on one thing.

True.

 

[Riders]

Well I was traumatized by the United Pentecostal church.It was an old timey church where you had to be Baptized in Jesus name only instead of Father Son and Holy Ghost. There's a strict dress code especially for women, cant cut the hair or wear makeup or jewelry and have to wear long dresses all the time.

Then you had to get the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.When I was a teenager in the 80s psychiatric profession was twisted I had to live in psych wards away estranged from my family for 3 years in my teens. I wont go into the trauma I had there.

I got out and Mesquite High School would not allow me to attend high school well they did put me in a crazy class and the teacher Teresa told my parents and so did the principle, she doesnt' belong here take her back tot he psych ward.

My family threw me away except my parents did not.My sisters cousins just wanted me to go to the psych ward.

I was lost. My Mom was in alcoholics anonymous and there was a woman named Amber her Husband was James and they were converted to the UPC church using AA as a platform to witness. They talked to me I started going got happy that people were laying hands on me accepting me wanted me.

I became brainwashed a hater. Later on long story short I realized it was wrong wanted to leave couldn't get away from those people.

I got a job selling office supplies to businesses and they moved away to Lewisville Tx I went with them and when I was removed from the situation was able to get out.

I visited the Catholic church the Episcopal church a liberal Lutheran church. I love the way Catholics do their service. But ultimately .I quit Christianity because I don't see how you can be inclusive of everyone while saying my religions the only religion. Jesus said I'm the way the truth and the light no one gets to gather but by me.

But all christians use that as the 1 scripture that proves them right there's a few verses that relay the God man idea but there's just as many scriptures that have Jesus relaying a Universal position like the scripture that says The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.

The trouble is with scripture there's a lot of challenging contradictions I cant get past. There's also a lot of folks who have a lot of conclusive proof that the bible we read is not the real bible even.

If you read a web sight about the original King James wrote in the 1600s that there is a lot of difference huge differences between that one and our bible and I imagine earlier bibles are nothing like ours.

There is also information that says a lot of Christian teachings on Jesus were stolen from the Pagan system.

I do believe Christian and Pagan beliefs are the same thing.

HOWEVER UNbelievably after all that,I did go to the United Methodist church not long ago I loved it. I don't agree with the theology but they are accepting of gays and lesbians and people from different life style and really different religions though their ultimate theology doesn't I believe they do.

The spirit and heart and soul of kindness and compassion is more important then theology and I think these guys have it.

But I was offered to be able to go and not be pressured to join Christianity. So I'm taking them up on that.I am not going the church but I will go and I can get a good message I can apply to my life from their without becoming Christian.

I am also going to a meditation group here in Dallas I can take the bus too.

After I got out of the psych wards I was universal in my beliefs and joined a Yoga class that had meditation and chanting afterwards. I read Zen Mind Beginners Mind was interested in Buddhism,and Universal. So Ive reclaimed my Universalism.I had to be universal in the psych wards I was locked up with all sorts of teens.

 

[Riders]

The development of my Agnostic-Theism is actually an interesting one because it was spurred on by the history of the Baptist church as practiced in many of the black communities across the United States. Unlike evangelical Christianity which is composed of majority white parishioners, Baptist Christianity appears to be antithetical on the surface. The churches are filled with old black women with big colorful hats which are reminiscent of our relationship with African ancestry. Not to mention the music tempo, as the pastor preaches the gospel and begins to elevate his voice, the music tempo also changes and elevates where the whole entire church breaks out in song. Many times as a child I considered church nothing more than a concert and many times I couldn't wait to leave and get Sunday food and watch movies.

Like evangelical Christianity, many black parishioners swear by the "blood of Jesus" that they are saved due to their acknowledgment that Jesus died on the cross and rose after three days to ascend to himself--this I still never understood nor is this thread about that particular Christian metaphysical phenomena. As I got older and studied more about religions themselves I began to have a more worldview about the historicity regarding various world religions. When it came to Christianity as it relates to African diaspora it became even more clear that many Africans and African-Americans have what I call a "hand me down" form of Christianity. Historically many Africans were animists and polytheists and some were Muslim and some were Christian. But looking back and reflecting the transatlantic slave trade which began on the western portion of Africa, many Africans did not have a Christian background. Many Africans actually practiced the religion of their forefathers.

Through forceful acclimation of the English language as well as the religion of their new "masters," Africans accepted their fate, and began practicing their form of Christianity in relationship to themselves. Jubilation is the baseline of all so-called "black churches." Singing and hollering and speaking in tongues in my view are acquired forms of hysteria. I tend to think these things as I've seen in the church are learned as some sort of congregational phenomena. I could be wrong though, maybe some of these people are experiencing the "holy spirit," but I tend to think the Holy Spirit does not make you do a crip walk (a dance performed by crip gang members) in the isles because you are in "the spirit."

I saw Baptist Christianity as nothing more than a religious substitute to mask the pain and anguish many older blacks in my community have experienced. To make African-Americans passive was seen as good because the slave should not think of their oppression as bad, but in their best interest and to adopt the religion of their oppressor is good because their previous faith and the performances of worship of that faith is barbarism and wrong--at least that is how it is historically presented. Sure, black churches are fun to attend because people are proactive in the sermons. People sing, dance, and shout in praise of God, not to mention the services are always late when it is time to go. But as the doors open and people leave the same people that shout the praises of God are the very ones that go back to sleeping with the pastor. This also includes stealing from others, lying on others, talking behind others' back and even sleeping with other married people.

Sure this is no different than any other community but when you observe the black church as I have, there appears to be a haven of hypocrisy just like its white evangelical counterpart. The "I'm saved and I'm a sinner" seems to be the go to phrase most if not all Christians tend to regurgitate. It is almost like a psychological reassurance to mitigate the gravity of the sin(s) they've committed. But despite all this, what really drew me away from the church and ultimately this religious community are those that are continuously judgmental. Black Baptist Christians are literalists and in the Bible (I forgot which chapter and verse) there is something somewhere that apparently states that believers in Christ are to judge others if they do not believe Jesus died and rose. Of course the go to verse many Christians use is the one that says "nobody can come to the father except through the son."

Like any conditional deity Jesus' love is masqueraded through the condition of believing in his existence, his death, and his resurrection and his deification. Unfortunately the fervor of the black church was so much that when I did have a crisis of faith instead of nourishing my need for intellectual growth and help create a relationship between my increasing secular attitude with my spiritual one, I was chastised and condemned as being of the devil. The whole "I'm going to pray for you" rather being something genuine, became an insult. I was told I was going to hell if I did not repent. The irony of it all is that going back to the oppressed loving his/her oppressor was ultimately the plan to quell a potential slave rebellion and it worked for generations. The passivity that has been imparted in the black community is one of the reasons why many African-Americans continue to struggle. But it is also one of the reasons why we idolize some African-Americans today a prime example is MLK.

We celebrate MLK not just because he is a prolific speaker but because he was seen as a passive entity who although marched for civil rights, he dared not "speak directly to the white man." This is why Malcolm X was out and MLK was in because he was seen as the "good negro" while Malcolm being outspoken on civil rights and systemic racism directly to the face of the oppressor, was seen as hostile and violent. But Malcolm X was no more violent than the very people he spoke out against. The example of king is what you see in many black Baptist churches today. Baptist Christianity thus became unappealing to me, a sort of cultural adaptation that shouldn't have been adopted. As a single man who couldn't find a nice girl to have companionship with I was told to seek them out in the church and not surprising they are the worse ones! Eventually I left and never looked back. My blackness is still there but the religiosity was not. But nonetheless there will be more black parishioners who still tithe and give their money to the likes of Creflo Dollar and other pimp pastors because as I've mentioned earlier the psychology of passivity as passed down from oppressor to oppressed is a generational phenomena that I chose to remove in the form of shackles.

I like what you had to sya about black Pentecostals. I was in the United Pentecostal church UPC inc. for 9 years. We had strict dress codes, had to be baptized in the name of Jesus instead of the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost to be saved and also had to get the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues to be saved.

I was taught that the Trinity is Catholic and Pagan in nature. Oneness God head is what I was taught. So do you think Muslim belief influenced oneness churches? Yes there was crazy dancing rap artists `tumbling doing dance routines lots of dancing shaking screaming running around the aisles as well.

 

[Riders]

That is true... Metis.

I can't say that anyone teaches the Word perfectly, not even me. But there are varying degrees of traditions that certain denominations teach which mnay hinder the message of Jesus

For an example. My wife and I had two miscarriages and she was pregnant with a third. A pastor (denominational name not necessary as I do call them my brothers) was sharing Jesus to me on a weekly basis and in doing so asked,

"Ken, would you like to receive Jesus as Lord"?

My response was, "No!". I wasn't "no" I don't ever want to but rather a "No, you haven't convinced me that truth is being shared".

He then said "Ken, if you don't, you could loose this baby". I didn't know God but I had horse sense enough that if He sent His son to die for me, He wouldn't kill the child in my wife's womb. I escorted him out of the house.

Today I realize it was just a religious teaching though he did love Jesus and did have a relationship. God is greater that our mistakes and I know that His mercy is over that pastor (probably long gone now).

But you are right, they are not intrinsically either good or bad. It is the relationship that is important

My problem with non Denominational church in Tc are that they seem to be tricking people into church.Because they are nondenominational, Non denominational means accept folks of all Christian denominations. I've been to 2
big nondenominational churches in mesquite the past 7 years.

They are both conservative Evangelical you have to believe on Jesus be Christian to escape hell.

That's fine in a Christian church but your churches claimed to be universal Universal churches accept and believe in all religions. Your nondenominational church are hell fire and brimstone church and are not anywhere near Universalism.

They use the Universal terms talk about how accepting of folks they are because they claim they accept folks who are bikers and get tattoos and so they have folks from all life styles. They do not they're not accepting off GLBTs and they don't teach from the different religions. If you teach follow Jesus or go to hell what on earth would make them say they're UNiversal.

 

[Kenny]

My problem with non Denominational church in Tc are that they seem to be tricking people into church.Because they are nondenominational, Non denominational means accept folks of all Christian denominations. I've been to 2
big nondenominational churches in mesquite the past 7 years.

They are both conservative Evangelical you have to believe on Jesus be Christian to escape hell.

That's fine in a Christian church but your churches claimed to be universal Universal churches accept and believe in all religions. Your nondenominational church are hell fire and brimstone church and are not anywhere near Universalism.

They use the Universal terms talk about how accepting of folks they are because they claim they accept folks who are bikers and get tattoos and so they have folks from all life styles. They do not they're not accepting off GLBTs and they don't teach from the different religions. If you teach follow Jesus or go to hell what on earth would make them say they're UNiversal.

Non-denominaltional means they have chosen not to be under the hierarchy of a Denomination. They are independent. In that they are independent, the flavors (and methods) vary. This is the first time I have ever heard that one said they are Universal churches. And I haven't seen one (yet) be preaching fire and brimstone.

Obviously that isn't to say there aren't since apparently you have experienced it.