Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Never really heard of any god or gods that cared about anyone but themselves when you boil away all the fancy talk.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
WHY I LEFT ISLAM - The Story of An Apostate In Saudi
- Thread starter Aaliyah Visser
- Start date
Never really heard of any god or gods that cared about anyone but themselves when you boil away all the fancy talk.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
The trouble with Islam is that Muslims don't talk about it openly in the same way as, say, Christians do in the West. In England everyone knows you could go into a church at any time during its opening hours and talk to someone (or confess, or whatever), but practically nobody knows that you can do the same with a Mosque (whether you're muslim or not). You can go in, and talk to an Imam about your problems.
Now the problem with being so insular about Islam is that it has allowed the Media to paint quite a brutish picture of it, which an increasing number of people accept as what Islam really is. Muslims will say 'this isn't what Islam is,' but they don't really do anything pro-active to educate the people.
If Islam needs one reform, it's that Muslims should stop being so insular
I am confused, are you saying you created this video? When I read it, it implies to me that you did. But I am not sure, if you did it is very professionally made. So that is why I ask, because if you did not make the video it might be that not all portions actually represent your view.
To me, in the video, two subjects are the focus of "why I left":
(1) an attraction/discovery of science and things such as evolution, and the assumption all Muslims reject science...
(2) an abhorrence to the violence found on videos of Islamic extremists burning, beheading, etc..
The word cult is also used.
I use the word cult a lot when dealing with some who are obviously involved in real cults, such as the father of Ted Cruz for example. I also see many in politics that are involved in what is really a cult, I saw this with circles of Democrats in San Francisco on the far left, and in fact some of these mixed both their political cult with religion and were going around shaking hands with "Reverend" Jim Jones of the People's Temple in San Francisco, his cult ended up with the mass suicide and murders in Guyana.
It is good to break away when there are obvious "issues" that tear one apart at a personal level.
Here are just a couple of extra thoughts, however. One, in regards to science, I have observed what I would call in my opinion cults within "science". For example, half-baked "scientists" under the influence (and often intimidation of) politicians and threats from power hungry government, the "global warming" cult which often is a religion of it self. And then we see, while not going to the extent of beheadings, literally brainwashed cultists of this sect threatening anyone who has a different scientific conclusion and who disagree, threats to destroy their livelihood and their families, threats to free speech and so on.
This is just one example, there are others and the point being is even in science you have some of the same issues you see in Islam. Including violence. After all, most of the horrific weapons were made by scientists. A video of the dead and burned and maimed should perhaps be shown and then blamed on scientists.
I perfectly understand your concerns, I am with you un that. But also have a broader perspective. Do not be a cultist of simply another cult even if not religious. It is funny. I am a fan of Alberuni's writings (Al-Bīrūnī, Abū Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad Al-Birunī), he was a Muslim who wrote a fantastic book and travelog on India, he lived from 973 AD to 1048 AD, he also authored books on mathematics, science and so on. He was a Khwarezmian Iranian Muslim scholar. It is clear, that in those times, Islam was very highly advanced in science, astronomy, discovery and exploration.
What happened?
If you start to really look at it, it was government that began to grab power, more and more, and then at some point things started to devolve.
Today terrorists use modern weapons to destroy others, weapons which they did not invent, to put others back into the 12 Century when these weapons did not exist.
Anyway, hope you keep safe from the fanatics. And become involved in reforming. But don't assume things also.
To me, in the video, two subjects are the focus of "why I left":
(1) an attraction/discovery of science and things such as evolution, and the assumption all Muslims reject science...
(2) an abhorrence to the violence found on videos of Islamic extremists burning, beheading, etc..
The word cult is also used.
I use the word cult a lot when dealing with some who are obviously involved in real cults, such as the father of Ted Cruz for example. I also see many in politics that are involved in what is really a cult, I saw this with circles of Democrats in San Francisco on the far left, and in fact some of these mixed both their political cult with religion and were going around shaking hands with "Reverend" Jim Jones of the People's Temple in San Francisco, his cult ended up with the mass suicide and murders in Guyana.
It is good to break away when there are obvious "issues" that tear one apart at a personal level.
Here are just a couple of extra thoughts, however. One, in regards to science, I have observed what I would call in my opinion cults within "science". For example, half-baked "scientists" under the influence (and often intimidation of) politicians and threats from power hungry government, the "global warming" cult which often is a religion of it self. And then we see, while not going to the extent of beheadings, literally brainwashed cultists of this sect threatening anyone who has a different scientific conclusion and who disagree, threats to destroy their livelihood and their families, threats to free speech and so on.
This is just one example, there are others and the point being is even in science you have some of the same issues you see in Islam. Including violence. After all, most of the horrific weapons were made by scientists. A video of the dead and burned and maimed should perhaps be shown and then blamed on scientists.
I perfectly understand your concerns, I am with you un that. But also have a broader perspective. Do not be a cultist of simply another cult even if not religious. It is funny. I am a fan of Alberuni's writings (Al-Bīrūnī, Abū Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad Al-Birunī), he was a Muslim who wrote a fantastic book and travelog on India, he lived from 973 AD to 1048 AD, he also authored books on mathematics, science and so on. He was a Khwarezmian Iranian Muslim scholar. It is clear, that in those times, Islam was very highly advanced in science, astronomy, discovery and exploration.
What happened?
If you start to really look at it, it was government that began to grab power, more and more, and then at some point things started to devolve.
Today terrorists use modern weapons to destroy others, weapons which they did not invent, to put others back into the 12 Century when these weapons did not exist.
Anyway, hope you keep safe from the fanatics. And become involved in reforming. But don't assume things also.
Fateme
Member
certainly there is a God because the world and galaxies can not be without a creator right? carefully in order in every thing to the conclusion that there is a God.He cares about us.He sent us to live on earth,a live testing and ofcourse sent prophets to guid is and said any prophet who comes you should follow him to prosper. Each massenger was introduced the next propet and said you should to follow him but some religious leaders were captured worldly pleasures and distort the divine book they desire.it came a few religious.but the last prophet (Mohammad( صلوات الله)) invited people to Islam (perfect religoin) and said everyone should follow and worship God and many other things but som did not follow like your ancestors.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
Islam needs a change of mindset in general , I do not believe sexual orientation is much of a choice , personaly do not agree with man sleeps with /man,then women ,then man,then cousin is a line somewhere .
Is terrible even Muslims do not understand the concept of Jesus , he would never discriminate in theory .
Yes can kick holes in religion but same message in each is a message of tolerance and understanding , the authors of NT maybe over emphasize empathy in the character however he is a standard none can reach ..none lol
Is not practical to live under the stars like Jesus did ,last nights cold alone would of seen me off , to work all day use all my money to help others , live in a doorway is not an option .Not many ever have the privilege to help others beyond family , small donations to charity that are poorly administrated , however without charity be worse.
So is compromise after compromise like Jesus .
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
Maybe was perfect in 1300 AD , I believe no man has the right to interfere in my relationship with God.
Is this wrong ?
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
Oh dear
A women is born pure , is influence of previous men that may bias her ,father/brothers/boyfriends etc, twisting her thought effectively becoming .
She only know what man shows her
They primitive in thought , the clerics do not understand ,thinking they are doing the right thing .
Islam was reborn in very brutal world but world now not so brutal , not everywhere anyway .
Fateme
Member
you have no idea how much i laughed when read your post .I mean protect protection against distortion not book itself otherwise its ideas will not disappear with the book_burning,disappear? you tell me.That is has happend because Quran the only book that has been not distored.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
I'm pretty sure the Quran has been edited by men almost as much as the Bible has.
Fateme
Member
first you should be polite second no thats right but i got involved in the relationship you have with God?
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
I believe no one has the right to push belief onto another or force the issue , that's all I was say.
Man/women relationship with God is 1 to 1 , private ?
Guys, Islam is not a being. How do you want it to reform itself?
It's okay, you can tell me that you didn't understand it and I can clarify it for you
Islam says that to each their own religions and gods to worship, which implies to each their own business in religion (Quran 109) and there is a verse that says that there is no compulsion in religion since things have been clarified. No compulsion includes no demonizing those who don't want to be Muslims (Quran 2:256). Now, if Muslims condemn apostates to death, it would be going against those verses. If so, which ones requires reformation? It is the specific Muslims who do it, not Islam.
Of course, any input is appreciate from anyone. Thank you for you view.
Let's stay with the apostasy point for now, since it is the one I'm talking about. Other subjects have their own extended explanations. The main point is that religions are sets of rules and followers are the ones to apply them.
The answer is already there in another post I made. I explained it further in my reply to Luis above. Also Quran, if referred to something, always supersede Hadeeth.
It's okay, you can tell me that you didn't understand it and I can clarify it for you
Islam says that to each their own religions and gods to worship, which implies to each their own business in religion (Quran 109) and there is a verse that says that there is no compulsion in religion since things have been clarified. No compulsion includes no demonizing those who don't want to be Muslims (Quran 2:256). Now, if Muslims condemn apostates to death, it would be going against those verses. If so, which ones requires reformation? It is the specific Muslims who do it, not Islam.
Of course, any input is appreciate from anyone. Thank you for you view.
Let's stay with the apostasy point for now, since it is the one I'm talking about. Other subjects have their own extended explanations. The main point is that religions are sets of rules and followers are the ones to apply them.
The answer is already there in another post I made. I explained it further in my reply to Luis above. Also Quran, if referred to something, always supersede Hadeeth.
Fateme
Member
yes me too but are you sure that the original book is gone?because i am sure there are thousands of original Quran in everywhere so it dose not matter who try to distort it but you tell me is there original bible? This is protection.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
But if it's been edited, it's surely been distorted. So Allah hasn't prevented the distortion of the Quran (as you so claimed he would).
Fateme
Member
I am not going to impose our ideas on enyone I am trying to say Islam is not what some say, it is not scary or not war and bloodshed.yes our relationship with God is private without bothering to pray to him
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
I know Islam wonderful religion ) is the mindset of the clerics is not perfect trapped at 1300AD.
Sorry if my 1st post was look like I criticise the words,
To critised mindset of clerics that control islam was my intention .
Fateme
Member
ok.this discussion is going nowhere because you want to convince me you are right while it is not absolutely not. I do not argue with you anymore bye.
Just to add that Apostate Law is usually misunderstood...
for instance, many people don't know that in Islam, capital punishment for apostasy is not applied to women nor for Muslim converts...
for instance, many people don't know that in Islam, capital punishment for apostasy is not applied to women nor for Muslim converts...