Why I Love Organised Religion

[Rival]

Yeah, you just forgot that can be done without the belief in standard religion. I mean the original Western university was religious as such. That was a Greek philosophical idea.

In the society in which we live, it was done and funded that way. Greece was a thoroughly horrible society where barely anyone could have anything, especially women and slaves. It's about time we stopped glorifying them above our Mediaeval ancestors.

 

[MyM]

Well, the Creator is in practice open as you are not the only one certain of who that is. As such I can just pick one if I needed to a religion, that allows me to go to Heaven and not Hell, even as an atheist. Now I don't need such a faith, but they are around as your faith is not the only version of religion even for the Creator.

And the certainty and lack of doubt in those religions, is the same for those believers as yours. So for all your certainty, you are in the end only certain as something you are as you.

That's what I said. I am certain but I don't control who others believe in. It's their choice. All I am doing is warning. I don't care really if you accept Islam or not, but being mindful of what I have said, it should warrant an investigation from a proper mind who is worried about his/her eternal life. If those who refuse to even look, to each his own and in my belief, the Creator will deal justly with them.

In Islam, there is punishment in this life, in the grave, and the hereafter. Regret is an awful feeling that will be experienced.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In the society in which we live, it was done and funded that way. Greece was a thoroughly horrible society where barely anyone could have anything, especially women and slaves. It's about time we stopped glorifying them above our Mediaeval ancestors.

But they are a part of our culture as European. Why do you hate your culture and deny it? Are you one of those?

 

[Rival]

But they are a part of our culture as European. Why do you hate your culture and deny it? Are you one of those?

Yeah no, not today Mikkel.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's what I said. I am certain but I don't control who others believe in. It's their choice. All I am doing is warning. I don't care really if you accept Islam or not, but being mindful of what I have said, it should warrant an investigation from a proper mind who is worried about his/her eternal life. If those who refuse to even look, to each his own and in my belief, the Creator will deal justly with them.

In Islam, there is punishment in this life, in the grave, and the hereafter. Regret is an awful feeling that will be experienced.

Yeah and I could warm you, but you wouldn't listen. But I have to listen to you, but you don't have to listen to me. I do get the double standard.

 

[MyM]

Yeah and I could warm you, but you wouldn't listen. But I have to listen to you, but you don't have to listen to me. I do get the double standard.

ok, warn me
But see, your beliefs are not proven because you doubt everything according to your uncertainty.

But when things have been proven through the Quran and Mohammad pbuh, I will not venture into looking outside for my guidance and faith. There is only one God and Mohammad is the last servant and messenger of God.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

ok, warn me
But see, your beliefs are not proven because you doubt everything according to your uncertainty.

But when things have been proven through the Quran and Mohammad pbuh, I will not venture into looking outside for my guidance and faith. There is only one God and Mohammad is the last servant and messenger of God.

Yeah, I can prove how I believe. I just use a different cognitive standard for proof, since I can do different versions of skepticism including methodological skepticism, which leads to truth.
And for proof, truth and evidence I know that there are many different versions. For truth alone there are at least in the broad sense over 15 and then there are even more if you nitpick. So no, I just do it differently than you and have another cognitive standard than you. And that works in both directions.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Really I'm just sick of the hatred of religion on Religious Forums.

Try to think of a hobby that others partake in that you find some fault with. I'll write up a few examples to see if anything strikes a cord:

Let's say someone is spending huge amounts of time, effort and energy on posting mocked-up pictures of their life to social media. They do it so often, and show you the results, that you genuinely wonder if they are even really "present" in all these photographs and selfies they keep posting. Now pretend you start getting the idea that the posts they keep showing you are to a site that doesn't even really exist. It's not even really there... no one else is really participating, and it seems very plausible the more and more you look into it that they are somehow being duped or misled. Would you say nothing to them about it? Nothing at all? "To each his own" and all that good jazz? I don't think I could help myself, honestly. I couldn't let that sit on my conscience. I just couldn't.

Say someone plays a game on their phone. Trying to think of one you might have feelings against, I'll pick "Pokemon Go." They play this game fairly frequently, and do things like try to show you the latest Pokemon they've caught, perhaps trying to peek your interest in the game. Sometimes you have conversations about other things, but somehow this one thing tends to get brought up more frequently than not. Then the person ends up getting themselves into a silly situation wherein they have stumbled into an off-limits area without realizing it, and they end up being reprimanded and fined by the authorities. Are there no consequences for this person, from you? You say nothing to them? You don't shake your head or roll your eyes to let them know you don't approve? You don't try and get them to see that this hobby of theirs may not be important enough to be so zealous over? Again... I feel I would probably say something.

Does the person who says something or the person who says nothing in situations like these garner more respect in your eyes? If someone sees something they disagree with and they speak up, do you admire that more, or less than the person who stays silent and just puts up with the thing that they feel is causing some others detriment?

 

[2ndpillar]

I shouldn't really respond to such nonsense but how about good things organised religion is responsible for? Let's go,

Hospitals.
Large amounts of charity via monasteries and almshouses etc.
Universities.
The modern sciences.
Theology.
Bringing the common folks together under one banner.
Human rights.
Human freedoms.
Mass literacy.

It goes on.

"Mass literacy" posts dates your Roman church and its submission of the peasants, and more in the realm of the modern age, and with emphasis on such people as Benjamin Franklin and the library and the modern US with free education requirements. Joan of Arc and those tortured in the Inquisitions might disagree with your "human rights and human freedom" response. As for "modern sciences", I think Galileo Galilei might disagree with you on that point, as he was tortured and imprisoned within his own house for life for writing a fictional book about the earth revolving around the sun. As for monasteries, the Middle Age monasteries, seemed to own much of the land, and the modern ones seem to be receiving charity. Bringing "common folks together under one banner" seems to lead to wars, such as the Crusades, or the internal wars of Yugoslavia, and Ireland. As for Universities, they seem to be the repose of the godless Progressive and seem to produce too many people with woke interpretive dance degrees.

 

[2ndpillar]

ok, warn me
But see, your beliefs are not proven because you doubt everything according to your uncertainty.

But when things have been proven through the Quran and Mohammad pbuh, I will not venture into looking outside for my guidance and faith. There is only one God and Mohammad is the last servant and messenger of God.

I don't know. The Quran states that Isa Ibn Maryam, Yeshua, was a prophet of God, and that the book of the Jews was from God. On the other hand, the reference to Mhmd, Mohammad, meaning, the "praised one", in the Quran was targeted at Isa Ibn Maryam. On the original inner wall of the Dome of the rock, it is also targeted at Isa Ibn Maryam, Yeshua. Apart from 9th and 10th century writings about this guy Mohammad, by people mostly from around Hira, or Baghdad, there is no historical evidence of this guy Mohammad living in some desolate area called Mecca in the 7th century. There was a "Mecca" between Haran and Ur in the north, and there was a "praised one"/Mohammad who ruled Hira, but no historical Mohammad in some desolate hole in the wall called Mecca in southwestern Arabia. Not to say that the sword and taxes cannot make people believe things, but it just doesn't make them true.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Organised religion provides a structure to one's faith.

I like that you can go see someone who you know will (or should) be knowledgeable in this religion and able to help you learn and progress on your journey, to walk you through the faith and be there for you.

I appreciate formal rituals for their own sake, for their familiarity and comfort, for how they bring the community together all partaking in the same thing and imbuing it with spiritual meaning.

I like that there are places for people who feel called to serve God as a lifestyle, taking themselves out of the saecular world. Becoming clergy, monks, etc. These are available options in many faiths.

I like how organised religion is able to provide charity in large amounts.

I appreciate hierarchies and how it makes things feel more formalised. It makes those rituals seem somehow more real when done or presided over by someone or some folks who has/have trained to do this.

I love how organised religion can be there when you need it - a physical building, a service, a shared ritual, shared prayer, shared activities, etc. These things are so beneficial for the human psyche.

I think organised religion is much more good than bad.

What is the alternative to organized religion? Disorganized religion. How can that be a good thing.

 

[Rival]

What is the alternative to organized religion? Disorganized religion. How can that be a good thing.

Religions with no formalised structure or practitioners who shun it, such as independent Christians with no church.