You may choose to support or not support anyone according to your own interests and world view, and other people are doing the same. what you deem despicable, they may define differently.
I think you're missing my point. I'm not talking about interests, or world views. I'm talking about givens. Just to clarify i'm talking about unconditional support, as in to support Israel without calling it out on its crimes. To support it with weapons, and already knowing that Israel will use it on Palestinian civilians. This is not a world view, i'm not talking about which side people should take.
However, just to make sure i'm not enforcing my opinion. If you believe or understand how some people might support Israel in that fashion, and that what Israel does is justified, and it doesn't disturb or bother those who supports it, fine that is your opinion and theirs. But in that case, i don't expect to hear from them about the crimes of the other side, since this all justified in their eyes.
The Palestinian death and martydom industry plays a huge role. and so does Israeli jingoism.
I'm not marginalizing the point you made. I thought you meant it is the main cause, my mistake.
I'm aware of these reports. and all of them should be studied by the Israeli public, the Israeli security services, and the Israeli government. the fact that many of these reports come from Israeli sources may very well be the catalyst to any reforms.
Then would you say now that at least some of Israel's actions towards Palestinians are criminal? and terrorism?
It seems that you are jumping to a new topic. lets focus on what we have here first.
Do you excect me to know of each and every individual photo that's running on the net?
Don't get me wrong, i'm just having a hard time in understanding your ill-ease to say that some of Israel's actions are horrible, so i was just providing you with a couple of examples of what i view as criminal and terrorism, in the hope we would agree that it is. Which i hope you do now.
But Palestinians ARE being killed today in Arab states, in Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq. and you simply seem to be misinformed on the subject as you yourself have admitted.
Did i say they are not? Yes i am misinformed on the subject. And when you posted the case that happened in Lebanon in 2007 i realized so. However, my point was some clarification should have been made. Which Arab countries, and when. Cause the way it sounds, is like all or most Arab countries are killing Palestinians. Also, my other point is that we should clarify that the horrible incidents which happened in the past, do not happen today on the same scale or any way near it.
furthermore what do you mean don't mix it with the poor refugee status of the Palestinians? this is another thing that should be studied, Palestinians are being forced to remain in refugee status by Arab states, in Lebanon the Palestinians are practically quarantined in refugee camps, in extremely poor conditions.
Did i say that? I said the exact opposite. I said not mixing that up with an indeed prevalent thing today, which is the poor status for refugees. As in yes, that is important.
Here is the problem though, you say at one point this is off topic, when its concerned with Israel. And then discuss other issues, when its concerned with Arab countries. In other words, what exactly is the point of this in the light of the OP?
To make it simpler. Its not my point in this thread to defend Arab countries, and i have already condemned some of the things they do. Now the main point of all this remains to be: Is there any reason that should make people support Israel unconditionally, and even contribute themselves in the suffering of others? No, which is what i'm hoping you and i could come to an agreement upon.
And, just not to mix things up. I understand your main point. I understand the main point you want to make, and that i believe is, that for some people there are more than one reason to support Israel, thats out of the way. The only thing left is, the point i'm making. The unconditional support.
What would you tell those Israelis under the rocket range who examine the facts and the after effects of Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza strip? many people do realize that now Palestinians are thinking twice.
during 2008 these Israeli citizens were targeted with thousands of rockets through out the year, however after Operation Cast Lead, Palestinians ARE thinking twice. the number of rockets launched at Israeli citizens since the end of the operation in January 2009 was reduced from thousands in one year, to 250 in 2009 (since the end of the operation) and 100 during this year (til the end of July 2010).
I'm completely against any Israeli civilian being targeted, and thats why i do not support Hamas.
However, that doesn't mean its okay to do the exact same thing to Palestinians now is it? On a much, much wider and bigger scale that is of course. And that is why this thread have shown me things i didn't expect to see. I didn't expect to see people against certain things happening to some civilians, but are okay when it happens to another.
What if suicide bombings to the US would have worked, and derived it out of Iraq, would it have been okay then? Would it have been something you don't view as terrorism and criminal?
What can you tell me about it?
Well it takes many forms. One example is how active more people have become lately when it comes to political issues. Constant objections and protests to government policies. Also, in the media and particularly on TV shows, pretty much all government officials are under constant criticism. Another example, is also in women rights. The idea for women judges for example, although there are already women judges, but still there is still some obstacles in that for women, because its still met with some silly arguments. Here is an article about it.
EGYPT: Battle For Women Judges Half Won - IPS ipsnews.net
Can you provide me sources?
You mean a source about the candidate thing? If so have you heard about El Baradei's possible involvement in the elections?
Here is an article about it, though its a little old.
Mohamed ElBaradei considers running in Egypt presidential elections - Times Online
