Why I think a lot of the Bible is False

[rocketman]

Even if we don't resort to symbolism or allegory, the story of Cain need not be illogical if one takes a careful reading of the verses.

Two principles that stick out to me are these: firstly, we are only told about the people we reasonably need to know about (see Gen5:4 for example), and secondly, I don't believe that after having been told "be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth.." that Adam and his wife would have only had two kids in a 130 year period before Seth popped out. C'mon folks, we are supposed to read between the lines here.

We could make a strong argument that Cain was the firstborn, but we cannot make the same argument that Abel was the second born, only that he was born after Cain, and we only seem to be told about his existence so we can understand what happened next between he and his older brother.

In any case, even if there were just three after the death of Abel, it may well have been that Cain feared that his parents and/or any future offspring they produce might have a go at him. I think we would all be pretty tense around our Dad if we just killed one of his other kids, yes?


Here is a very bizzare Jewish take on the story if anyone is interested. Remember, I said it was bizarre.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So you're saying that God, as described in the OT, did not kill every human being on earth except one family? Did not kill every first-born child in Egypt? Did not command his followers to commit genocide, repeatedly, being sure to kill all the babies?

Thats a non-sequitor.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So babies aren't innocent?

Presumably so but evidentially not.

 

[Autodidact]

Thats a non-sequitor.

sandy, I'm not following you. I say that God has committed atrocities. You say He hasn't. I say but didn't he repeatedly command genocide? You say that's a non sequitor. Why? Isn't genocide an atrocity?

 

[Autodidact]

Presumably so but evidentially not.

And this, in a nutshell, is one of the most evil aspects of Christian theology; they believe that little newborn babies are evil. Therefore, killing them is justified, because combating evil is a good thing. Ack!I mean, if little babies aren't innocent, what is?

 

[Riverwolf]

And this, in a nutshell, is one of the most evil aspects of Christian theology; they believe that little newborn babies are evil. Therefore, killing them is justified, because combating evil is a good thing. Ack!I mean, if little babies aren't innocent, what is?

And the funny thing is, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Jayell]

And this, in a nutshell, is one of the most evil aspects of Christian theology; they believe that little newborn babies are evil. Therefore, killing them is justified, because combating evil is a good thing. Ack!I mean, if little babies aren't innocent, what is?

We believe all humans are born sinners, which is true. You don't have to teach a child to be bad, he/she just is. It's natural; on the other hand we have to taught good behavior. For the most part christians are not baby killers, believe or not we are actaully against abortion.

 

[Autodidact]

We believe all humans are born sinners, which is true. You don't have to teach a child to be bad, he/she just is. It's natural; on the other hand we have to taught good behavior.

And that is one of the things that is so evil about Christianity. That is just a horrible, dangerous and false belief. I can't express how wrong and destructive I think this belief is.

 

[Autodidact]

We believe all humans are born sinners, which is true. You don't have to teach a child to be bad, he/she just is. It's natural; on the other hand we have to taught good behavior. For the most part christians are not baby killers, believe or not we are actaully against abortion.

What do you think about Christian President Bush's decision to kill a certain number of Iraqi baby sinners so he could depose their ruler?

 

[Riverwolf]

We believe all humans are born sinners, which is true. You don't have to teach a child to be bad, he/she just is. It's natural; on the other hand we have to taught good behavior. For the most part christians are not baby killers, believe or not we are actaully against abortion.

Where in the Bible is this stated? Original sin doesn't mean babies untaught will do bad things; that's a Hobbsist approach. It just means that unbaptized, babies will still have the stain of their fathers' sins. And I don't think Jesus ever said anything like that.

 

[Heneni]

There is a lot of the bible that is true. You wont find adam and eve's remains, but you will find adam and eve's mistakes in all of us.

you wont find noah's ark, but you will find that we feel the same need as god to 'clean out the neighbourhood'

you wont find Peter, the disciple who believed he loved Jesus more than all the others, at the local pub, but you can find many husbands and wives that proclaim their undying love for each other, but when the crunch comes, they desert each other.

The bible is actually profoundly relevant, and the human stories in it is universal. How can our own experiences be false, if it so closely resembles that which is written in the bible. Hence, is the bible really false?

Also..we dont mind reading bed time stories to our kids. For example the story of cinderella. Its a lovely story, completely fictional, yet all little girls at some point looks out for the prince.

 

[Autodidact]

There is a lot of the bible that is true. You wont find adam and eve's remains, but you will find adam and eve's mistakes in all of us.

Unless there were no such people.

you wont find noah's ark, but you will find that we feel the same need as god to 'clean out the neighbourhood'

Preferably not by slaughtering everyone in it.

you wont find Peter, the disciple who believed he loved Jesus more than all the others, at the local pub, but you can find many husbands and wives that proclaim their undying love for each other, but when the crunch comes, they desert each other.

The bible is actually profoundly relevant, and the human stories in it is universal. How can our own experiences be false, if it so closely resembles that which is written in the bible. Hence, is the bible really false?

Yes, it is. I find that my life, for the most part, does not encompass a lot of animal sacrifice, petty purity taboos, endless war and genocide, and other Bible highlights.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

We believe all humans are born sinners, which is true. You don't have to teach a child to be bad, he/she just is. It's natural; on the other hand we have to taught good behavior. For the most part christians are not baby killers, believe or not we are actaully against abortion.

Hang on a second......I'm trying to follow this:

For the most part, Christians are not baby killers? :cover:

 

[Riverwolf]

Unless there were no such people.

So you never, ever, ever, ever, once disobeyed your parents?

Preferably not by slaughtering everyone in it.

You've never cleaned that which was unclean? You murder innocent microbes when you do that, you know.

Yes, it is. I find that my life, for the most part, does not encompass a lot of animal sacrifice, petty purity taboos, endless war and genocide, and other Bible highlights.

Is that all you can glean from the Bible? I used to think so as well, until I realized that harboring such thoughts leads to the exact kind of hatred that causes people to want to kill each other. I consider the Book of Joshua to be one of the most gruesome books ever written, but I just ignore it. But if you would rather an easy way to learn what the Bible was talking about, read Tao Te Ching. And learn to dig, why don't you? After all, beauty is on the inside, right? The ugliest person in the world might have the greatest heart.

Besides, if the Bible were never written, you would not feel as you do about death. Have you killed the person who insulted you yet? If you haven't, you're not worth anything until you do...

 

[Autodidact]

So you never, ever, ever, ever, once disobeyed your parents?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to Adam and Eve.

You've never cleaned that which was unclean? You murder innocent microbes when you do that, you know.

Please tell me you're not claiming that doing the dishes is the moral equivalent of genocide.

Is that all you can glean from the Bible?

No, but it's a substantial part.

I used to think so as well, until I realized that harboring such thoughts leads to the exact kind of hatred that causes people to want to kill each other. I consider the Book of Joshua to be one of the most gruesome books ever written, but I just ignore it.

So do a lot of Christians, including those who claim to base their lives on the Bible.

But if you would rather an easy way to learn what the Bible was talking about, read Tao Te Ching. And learn to dig, why don't you? After all, beauty is on the inside, right? The ugliest person in the world might have the greatest heart.

I agree that the Tao Te Ching is a beautiful and profound book, especially the Gia Fu translation. I disagree that the Bible is about the same thing as the Bible. The Bible is about many things, but not:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled.
Oh, unfathomable source of ten thousand things!
Blunt the sharpness,
Untangle the knot,
Soften the glare,
Merge with dust.
Oh, hidden deep but ever present!
I do not know from whence it comes.
It is the forefather of the gods.[/FONT]

Besides, if the Bible were never written, you would not feel as you do about death. Have you killed the person who insulted you yet? If you haven't, you're not worth anything until you do...

What the heck? Are you really saying any of this?

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve disobeyed their parent.

Please tell me you're not claiming that doing the dishes is the moral equivalent of genocide.

Taking life is taking life. The cold fact is, we need to kill in order to survive. Killing needlessly is the moral wrong. And trust me, what Joshua did was kill needlessly.

No, but it's a substantial part. So do a lot of Christians, including those who claim to base their lives on the Bible. I agree that the Tao Te Ching is a beautiful and profound book, especially the Gia Fu translation. I disagree that the Bible is about the same thing as the Bible. The Bible is about many things, but not:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled.
Oh, unfathomable source of ten thousand things!
Blunt the sharpness,
Untangle the knot,
Soften the glare,
Merge with dust.
Oh, hidden deep but ever present!
I do not know from whence it comes.
It is the forefather of the gods.

And that's what God was supposed to be... until someone painted him in the liken of an old Caucasian.
[/FONT]

What the heck? Are you really saying any of this?

That's what Greek culture, my secondary ancestry, was like. There was no overseeing law, but there were guidelines. Believe me, it wasn't pretty. If someone so much as spat on you, it was your right to avenge yourself and kill that person. In fact, if you didn't, you'd become even more disgraced because you chose not to defend your honor, and others would feel safe spitting on you, and doing things even worse, possibly stripping you of everything you owned and leaving you for dead.

If you think Yeh'vah was a bad God, just look at what Zeus did, or even Chronos. And don't forget Ares. He'd charge into any battlefield, not caring whose side he's on as long as there's lots of blood, but when he gets a small scratch, he goes crying home to daddy. Or even Eros. Trust me, Eros isn't an affectionate cupid in any way; he shoots his arrows of desire into people, not to spread love or peace, but so he can laugh and jest at the two people as they make loveless love, not really knowing why. Aphrodite provoked a terrible war just so that some foreign prince would call her beautiful.

Believe me, to the Greeks, all existence was nothing but a game being played by the gods, and we're the pieces. And they had a huge influence on history and modern culture. Without the Ten Commandments, nothing would have stopped that kind of view from influencing us.

 

[Jayell]

And that is one of the things that is so evil about Christianity. That is just a horrible, dangerous and false belief. I can't express how wrong and destructive I think this belief is.

It's destructive to think that we are not evil by nature and that God is just going to overlook our sinful lives.

 

[Heneni]

Hi Jayell. What could humans have done to upset god so much? Rebel? OK, but god does not have an ego problem, if we didnt want God, why would he have a gripe about letting us go? He doesnt, we have our independence here on earth, but we cant make good with it.

So, god is more concerned to get us back, than getting even.

Dont you think?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's destructive to think that we are not evil by nature and that God is just going to overlook our sinful lives.

Unless, of course, it isn't.

 

[McBell]

OK, but god does not have an ego problem,

Wow.
Interesting how you disagree with God himself.

I wonder, who are we supposed to believe?
You, who claim that God does not have an ego problem,
Or God, who admits that he does?

For I am a vain and jealous God, thou shalt have no other Gods before me.

vain (v

n)adj.
vain·er, vain·est 1. Not yielding the desired outcome; fruitless: a vain attempt.
2. Lacking substance or worth: vain talk.
3. Excessively proud of one's appearance or accomplishments; conceited.
4. Archaic Foolish.

Idiom: in vain1. To no avail; without success: Our labor was in vain.
2. In an irreverent or disrespectful manner: took the Lord's name in vain.

[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin v

nus, empty; see eu

- in Indo-European roots.]
vain

ly adv.
vain

ness n.
Synonyms: vain, empty, hollow, idle, nugatory, otiose
These adjectives mean lacking value or substance: vain regrets; empty pleasures; hollow threats; idle dreams; nugatory commentaries; an otiose belief in alchemy. See Also Synonyms at futile.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
​