Why I think atheism/theism doesn't matter.

[Penumbra]

I don't see the point in describing a god as a label for an experience.

I'd prefer to keep language at least slightly useful, and keep certain words for certain things, and other words for other things.

I can understand why syncretism is appealing to some. Religious figures have differing and sometimes conflicting viewpoints about truth. The constant search for agreeableness leads people to wonder if maybe they were all correct. This leads to people cherry-picking certain concepts from religions, disregarding others, and then trying to fit the awkward puzzle together.

The alternative is admitting that some religious leaders might simply not have known what they were talking about. That they were wrong.

Searching for truth is important. It's at the very nature of what makes a human a human, and it works to avoid problems and create solutions.

 

[Meow Mix]

I think that God and the Buddhists "big mind" are the same thing. Following Jesus and following the eightfold path lead to the same place. Joining with God or waking up. Both describe a way of being. The same way of being in my view.

One road needs no God, the other does. The destination is the same.
To focus on theism or atheism is to look at the road and see destination rather than journey.

It seems to me that it's the waking up that matters - not the road there.

I don't disagree with this actually.

The things that I disagree with when it comes to religions is when they make unsupported ontological claims, such as "this or that exists."

If a religion is more of a life philosophy, a way of thinking, a journey through life... I don't even find that superstitious.

This is why atheism/theism does matter though, is because of the ontology. Theism makes unacceptable (to me) ontological claims and fails to support them.

 

[dust1n]

To me, it just means being here, doing this.

Wait, doing what we are doing? Why would anything abstraction matter then?

TurkeyOnRye once described it very well:
Enlightenment is experiencing the completeness and perfection of this moment all the time. It never leaves because he/she understands that this moment is all there is.

Yes, in this context what would theism matter for, unless you had reason to believe one is necessary for this 'understanding that this moment is all there is', which no one here seems to think so.

But, when you put it in that context, nothing actually matters other than understanding that this moment is all there is. So?

And there still is no explanation on why this enlightenment is important.

Here is why I think atheism/theism doesn't matter. You can make yourself a sandwich either way. It's not a matter of whether or not how one makes the sandwich, only that one does make the sandwich. In fact, nothing matters outside of sandwich making.

 

[A-ManESL]

But how do you distinguish a greater reality from something in your head?

Isnt everything in our head? lol...anyway, the answer to your question is present in mysticism for those who care to tread the path. Essentially there is a kind of intituitive self-awareness of the Truth, which comes about. But it is a fine line, hence people look for guidance by those who have trodden the path before.

 

[Jeremiah]

Maybe one has to look take their heads out of the sand too and see that all they were seeing before was not all of Reality. For those who are unable to do so, they certainly wont believe that they are at anything but at the max level. Hence it is fruitless to argue further with such people.

Regards

You'll never understanding anything until you learn to accept things for what they are. You want to know what letting go of egotistical attachment is? That would be letting go of what you want reality to be and accepting things for what they actually are.

 

[Jeremiah]

But how do you distinguish a greater reality from something in your head?

Imagination, wisdom and intelligence. We can use our perception, and other devices, to gather knowledge. But we can only make sense of what we have learned with our minds. We reach the truth, as it actually exist, with proper use of our mind.

 

[A-ManESL]

You'll never understanding anything until you learn to accept things for what they are. You want to know what letting go of egotistical attachment is? That would be letting go of what you want reality to be and accepting things for what they actually are.

okay ... Maybe I misunderstood you before. Anyway, I agree that knowledge determines what things actually are. But why does knowledge have to come about only from the mind and cannot also from some other source, such as from within our own selves, through internal reflection? Why the need for this prohibition? If you believe this to be true is it because you believe that we are fully conditioned by our surroundings and are otherwise devoid of knowledge. If so, what is the source of this belief of yours?

Regards.

 

[Jeremiah]

okay ... Maybe I misunderstood you before. Anyway, I agree that knowledge determines what things actually are. But why does knowledge have to come about only from the mind and cannot also from some other source, such as from within our own selves, through internal reflection? Why the need for this prohibition? If you believe this to be true is it because you believe that we are fully conditioned by our surroundings and are otherwise devoid of knowledge. If so, what is the source of this belief of yours?

Regards.

"such as from within our own selves, through internal reflection?"

That is of the mind.

 

[A-ManESL]

"such as from within our own selves, through internal reflection?"

That is of the mind.

okay! I guess I misunderstood you then. Its probably because English isnt my first language.

Regards

 

[Midnight Pete]

Generally, it just means "a label for an experience," though.

That is very imprecise language. It could mean anything you want to mean.

 

[Willamena]

Wait, doing what we are doing? Why would anything abstraction matter then?

We're doing abstration, too. It's one of the things we're doing.

 

[Willamena]

That is very imprecise language. It could mean anything you want to mean.

Precisely, though, it means "a label for an experience".

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Precisely, though, it means "a label for an experience".

Except, that's not precise. You might as well say "precisely, it means a thing".

 

[Willamena]

Except, that's not precise. You might as well say "precisely, it means a thing".

"Label" is a precise thing.

 

[PolyHedral]

True, "label" is precise, but a label isn't necessarily precise at all.

 

[Willamena]

True, "label" is precise, but a label isn't necessarily precise at all.

Tell it to Andy Warhol.

 

[dust1n]

We're doing abstration, too. It's one of the things we're doing.

I understand that. I'm asking why this outlook is important or valuable, and how can one properly set up a hierarchy between the value of atheism/theism and enlightenment?

Atheism/theism DON'T really matter, sure. But how does any of the fore mentioned ideas about enlightenment matter?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"Label" is a precise thing.

But we're not talking about what "label" means. We're talking about how vague defining God as "a label for an experience" is.

Seems that in response to being accused of being vague, the only response is to become more vague.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I don't think the "universal consciousness" or "big mind" subscribed by many Buddhists is any thing like the same thing as the God Christians believe in. For one thing they seldom speak of it at a creative force for the universe as Christians do. Instead it is just a rather passive observer and the experience of self and is not instrumental to the nature of the world they are born in. Universal consciousness or "big mind" may be just no more than an emergent property of complexity rather than an omnipotent creator and it no more God than metallicity was in a much younger universe.

 

[Willamena]

I understand that. I'm asking why this outlook is important or valuable, and how can one properly set up a hierarchy between the value of atheism/theism and enlightenment?

Atheism/theism DON'T really matter, sure. But how does any of the fore mentioned ideas about enlightenment matter?