McBell
Unbound
Some people think that if they can convince themselves and others that science and religion (and sometimes faith) are all on the same level, then their religion (or faith) is as valid as science.
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Why I Think That Science Kinda Sucks
- Thread starter Student of X
- Start date
besart
Member
Right, but they are not on the same level. The thinking process in science is way different than any religion. Science is self correcting, and constantly tested. There are only fact. I have big time trouble putting Evolution on the same level as Jesus walked on water and turned water into wine. There is no explenation of how this happened, it just did. But what am I doing? trying to use logic when speaking of religion?
FYI: this is how you're coming across, at least to me.
"Science sucks. It doesn't value the things I value, therefore science must be wrong."
"Well, have you studied science to see why it takes the approach it does?"
"No, but I get high a lot, so I know what I'm talking about."
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
FYI: this is how you're coming across, at least to me.
"Science sucks. It doesn't value the things I value, therefore science must be wrong."
"Well, have you studied science to see why it takes the approach it does?"
"No, but I get high a lot, so I know what I'm talking about."
I'm well aware of how pearls come across to swine.
Yes, because your failure to convince me is because of my shortcomings and not the quality of your arguments.
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
Maybe if rule 6 wasn't restraining my words, I could convince you to spiritwalk. But since I can't say everything I want to say about entheogens, there's no way to find out.
There's nothing in Rule 6 that prevents you from talking about, say, the possible mechanisms by which a drug could be a source of knowledge.
And just for clarity, I'm not talking about the experience of the drugs themselves. So let's say a person feels really connected to the universe (or whatever you're saying the effect is) - so what? How do we know this is the result of an actual connection to the universe (or whatever) and not just a spiritual placebo?
Unless your experience includes double-blind trials of your favourite entheogen against a control, then your personal experience is largely irrelevant to this question.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
The fact that almost everyone who does that sort of thing gets 1) inconsistent results, 2) somewhat unreliable results suggests that you need to spend more time at the drawing board.
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
A fact, eh? Wow!
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
I made a thread about entheogens in a DIR so that I could safely express my religious beliefs without worrying about rule 6 and without debate. That thread, and the following link, are all I am going to submit regarding enthogens. I won't be goaded into saying more than I am comfortable saying, by you or anyone.
Why are Psychedelics Spiritual?
Last edited:
McBell
Unbound
:biglaugh:
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Man, I've never seen such high levels of self-serving, pretentious, pseudo-spiritual, new-age nonsense in all my life.
Seriously, Student of X, pull your head out of the clouds for two minutes a just look around you. Can you honestly say that your mystical BS is anywhere even close to being as productive, helpful and practical as the development of science in the last hundred years? What have your beliefs (which is all they really are - not facts) done to benefit the world in any way that isn't entirely imagined on based on your own distorted version of reality?
Seriously, Student of X, pull your head out of the clouds for two minutes a just look around you. Can you honestly say that your mystical BS is anywhere even close to being as productive, helpful and practical as the development of science in the last hundred years? What have your beliefs (which is all they really are - not facts) done to benefit the world in any way that isn't entirely imagined on based on your own distorted version of reality?
I recall a fella I knew in school who smoked dope for a heightened sense of reality.
His car's collision with a utility pole led to a revelation.....his philosophy didn't work.
Other than treatment for depression or psychosis, one's thinking prowess doesn't improve with drugs.
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
Since science is mystical (ask no-body) everything science has brought us has actually been brought to us by mysticism, including the capacity for scientific cleverness that we are currently busy worshiping.
E. Nato Difficile
Active Member
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Fallen at the first hurdle. In what way is science - a method of objectively studying the natural world - in any way mystical?
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
Let's try turning your question on its head and seeing what happens. In what way is mysticism - a method of subjectively studying the unnatural world - in any way scientific?
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
It isn't.
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
Is that another fact? Can you use science to prove it?
Even if we were to set aside the incorrect premises here, I note that ImmortalFlame referred to "your mystical BS", not mysticism in general.
Unless you mis-read Flame's post, it seems like you're trying to appeal to some sort of fallacious argument like "science is right and science is mystical, so since my stuff is mystical too, it must be right too."