Why I think there is one right religion

[England my lionheart]

Quote:One-answer

This is easier than you think. The hadith doesn't say that there is that you have to belong to a certain sect. Although what one would practice may be the closest to a certain sect, but this is not the case.

There will be 73 sects of Islam,72 will be in hellfire except one and they will be the ones on the same path as your prophet and his companions were in the 7th century,seems to me 73 minus 72 leaves 1

 

[Sabour]

Quote:One-answer

This is easier than you think. The hadith doesn't say that there is that you have to belong to a certain sect. Although what one would practice may be the closest to a certain sect, but this is not the case.

There will be 73 sects of Islam,72 will be in hellfire except one and they will be the ones on the same path as your prophet and his companions were in the 7th century,seems to me 73 minus 72 leaves 1

Yep and we know which sect that is. The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now.

As I explained, the sect is not necessarily a certain label as Sunni or Shia. You may find a sunni who does follow the prophet's Muhammad (peace be upon him) teaching and another sunni that doesn't.

This is similar to the case of shia.

Let us not forget that this is not because of misconceptions, but because of the will of following desires.

And please note that the Arabic word use in he hadith is فرقة. فرقة means also a group. It doesn't mean sect as we understand today. The translation is not very accurate. The proof to that is that he said it is the group which follows my teaching and he didn't give it a label.

 

[Ingledsva]

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And about slavery I can put my input on the subject and my explanation, but I found this more interesting

[youtube]o9VB3YUNFuA[/youtube]
slavery in Islam - YouTube

Not sure what your point is with this one - as he says YES the Qur'an allows slavery.


"04:24 Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever AllKnowing, AllWise"


Obviously they could rape slaves - whom their right hands possessed, - or have wives - and - as much slave sex as they wanted on the side.




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[England my lionheart]

Yep and we know which sect that is. The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now.

As I explained, the sect is not necessarily a certain label as Sunni or Shia. You may find a sunni who does follow the prophet's Muhammad (peace be upon him) teaching and another sunni that doesn't.

This is similar to the case of shia.

Let us not forget that this is not because of misconceptions, but because of the will of following desires.

And please note that the Arabic word use in he hadith is فرقة. فرقة means also a group. It doesn't mean sect as we understand today. The translation is not very accurate. The proof to that is that he said it is the group which follows my teaching and he didn't give it a label.

Again this is just my opinion,the hadith is irrelevant because Muhammed was a messenger delivering the Qur'an and really this is where he should leave the stage if the Qur'an was perfect which I for one would expect a book authored by an all knowing all powerful God to be,don't take this as a criticism of Islam alone I feel the same about the books of the Bible.

 

[Sabour]

Not sure what your point is with this one - as he says YES the Qur'an allows slavery.


"04:24 Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever AllKnowing, AllWise"


Obviously they could rape slaves - whom their right hands possessed, - or have wives - and - as much slave sex as they wanted on the side.




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And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

 

[Sabour]

Again this is just my opinion,the hadith is irrelevant because Muhammed was a messenger delivering the Qur'an and really this is where he should leave the stage if the Qur'an was perfect which I for one would expect a book authored by an all knowing all powerful God to be,don't take this as a criticism of Islam alone I feel the same about the books of the Bible.

Don't worry brother. I understand what you are saying.

Prophets have important role in our lives. If the word of God was revealed and we didn't see anyone living the message, we would have said that this not attainable and we can't, as men, do it.

So prophets were men, not angels, so we would see that we can live up to he message delivered to us.

Still certain people say when told to behave, they say: " ohhh please I am not a prophet I have desires".

This is the kind of people that are not willing to follow no matter what.

They tend to refuse the fact that prophets were also men. And men also have desires.

But still some say, if the prophet did it, than I can do it.

I think this is the kind of attitude needed. We always need to look up to someone, in my case, it is the prophet who was living the message he was sharing.

That is the way I see it

 

[Ingledsva]

And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

AGAIN - what is your point here - picking out the part about marriage?



"WHAT YOUR RIGHT HAND POSSESSES" means SLAVE WOMEN. - and it tells them they can have UNMARRIED sex with them, which is also called - RAPING SLAVES.


And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.


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[Sabour]

AGAIN - what is your point here - picking out the part about marriage?



"WHAT YOUR RIGHT HAND POSSESSES" means SLAVE WOMEN. - and it tells them they can have UNMARRIED sex with them, which is also called - RAPING SLAVES.


And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess.


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[youtube]kNpdUVHSlbg[/youtube]
DW S16 : Q11. Man can have sex with slave? - YouTube

 

[Ingledsva]

[youtube]kNpdUVHSlbg[/youtube]
DW S16 : Q11. Man can have sex with slave? - YouTube

I watched it and it does not address the RAPE of those whom "Your right hand possess!"


He starts out talking about the general subject - then skims into - conversion/marriage.


The texts shown are not talking about slave women he converted and then married.

This is VERY obvious from the way it is written -


And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.


It separates "those whom your right hand posses" for rape, - and those BEYOND THESE - that you seek in actual marriage.



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[Sabour]

I watched it and it does not address the RAPE of those whom "Your right hand possess!"


He starts out talking about the general subject - then skims into - conversion/marriage.


The texts shown are not talking about slave women he converted and then married.

This is VERY obvious from the way it is written -


And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.


It separates "those whom your right hand posses" for rape, - and those BEYOND THESE - that you seek in actual marriage.



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Rape is a word from your imagination.

I wish you stop attacking Islam for two days and take time to study it.


Maybe this would empower you to attack it more, or from a new perspective.

 

[Ingledsva]

Rape is a word from your imagination.

I wish you stop attacking Islam for two days and take time to study it.


Maybe this would empower you to attack it more, or from a new perspective.

And what do you call having forced sex with your captive slave?




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[Sabour]

And what do you call having forced sex with your captive slave?




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Forced is a word from your imagination. Forced sex means rape. You just changed the word. So you can refer to my previous answer.

 

[Ingledsva]

Forced is a word from your imagination. Forced sex means rape. You just changed the word. So you can refer to my previous answer.

BULL!


Slaves do not have a choice in the matter!


That is FORCED SEX - which is RAPE!



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[Sabour]

BULL!


Slaves do not have a choice in the matter!


That is FORCED SEX - which is RAPE!



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Forced sex, rape are words from your imagination.

 

[Ingledsva]

Forced sex, rape are words from your imagination.

And again - you are trying to play dumb - and move this away from the text we are discussing.


The Qur'an says you can have sex with your captive slaves.


That is RAPE - no matter how you try to get around it.


Do you have a sister, or wife?


If your tribe and another tribe fight - and you all get slaughtered, - and they drag off your sister, or wife, and decide to have sex with her - because the Qur'an says they can -


is she going to giggle and grin and happily spread her legs?



Or shall we call it what it is FORCED SEX - RAPE of a slave!



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[Sabour]

And again - you are trying to play dumb - and move this away from the text we are discussing.


The Qur'an says you can have sex with your captive slaves.


That is RAPE - no matter how you try to get around it.


Do you have a sister, or wife?


If your tribe and another tribe fight - and you all get slaughtered, - and they drag off your sister, or wife, and decide to have sex with her - because the Qur'an says they can -


is she going to giggle and grin and happily spread her legs?



Or shall we call it what it is FORCED SEX - RAPE of a slave!



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So, I can have sex with my wife. Is that rape?

I wonder where you came up with the dragging and force. Did you not watch the video? Short memory? Or just like to make Islam look bad?

You have no idea about the approach towards slavery in Islam.

Besides, if I were playing dumb, why you are bothering to reply? Didn't you make your point clear ?

 

[Ingledsva]

And again - you are trying to play dumb - and move this away from the text we are discussing.


The Qur'an says you can have sex with your captive slaves.


That is RAPE - no matter how you try to get around it.


Do you have a sister, or wife?


If your tribe and another tribe fight - and you all get slaughtered, - and they drag off your sister, or wife, and decide to have sex with her - because the Qur'an says they can -


is she going to giggle and grin and happily spread her legs?



Or shall we call it what it is FORCED SEX - RAPE of a slave!

So, I can have sex with my wife. Is that rape?

I wonder where you came up with the dragging and force. Did you not watch the video? Short memory? Or just like to make Islam look bad?

You have no idea about the approach towards slavery in Islam.

Besides, if I were playing dumb, why you are bothering to reply? Didn't you make your point clear ?

And AGAIN you are twisting and avoiding answering my question.


And avoiding what the texts say!


I didn't say anything about YOU having sex with your wife.


I asked you if it is rape when a captor packs off YOUR WIFE, and HAS SEX WITH YOUR WIFE, or sister?


It is a simple question.


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[Sabour]

And AGAIN you are twisting and avoiding answering my question.


And avoiding what the texts say!


I didn't say anything about YOU having sex with your wife.


I asked you if it is rape when a captor packs off YOUR WIFE, and HAS SEX WITH YOUR WIFE, or sister?


It is a simple question.


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You are not even worth replying too.

Everytime I say I won't reply to you next time and I do again the same mistake.

Go do some studying about Islam.

 

[Ingledsva]

You are not even worth replying too.

Everytime I say I won't reply to you next time and I do again the same mistake.

Go do some studying about Islam.

Obviously you would rather retreat then state the TRUTH!



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[Sabour]

Obviously you would rather retreat then state the TRUTH!



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You must be smart