Why insult?

[dgirl1986]

I can tell you that they invited everyone and always asked people to avoid amalgams. They invited imams, writters, journalists, philosopher (muslims), the mother of a muslim military killed by Merah, in all the channels.
Of course some incidents happened but there's always idiots everywhere.

The cartoonists insulted much more christians than muslims.
Because it's a free country they have the right to do it even if many people in France didn't like them. And because it's not a religious country.

In fact, Charlie Hebdo was near to bankruptcy, they even asked people to give them money to survive.
Many people didn't like them, even some journalists from Charlie Hebdo said it recently the people people who used to hate them now are supporting them.

I did not agree with what they were publishing but that does not mean that they deserved to be killed. There is a problem when words are met with gun fire.

 

[Pastek]

I did not agree with what they were publishing but that does not mean that they deserved to be killed. There is a problem when words are met with gun fire.

Of course, nobody should be killed for that.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't run a government so my opinion doesn't count!!

That's ok. This is a forum. Not sure anyone's opinion here is going to count for much but we are still free to express it.

 

[Nakosis]

Actually in truth I think Western Culture like in France or America, or Muslim culture, like in Iran or Indonesia, have about the same level of problems for the average citizen, the problem is the media on both sides focuses on the worst aspects of the other culture and people, and people become biased for no good reason, you don't think Muslims in their countries are not getting constant stories about child molesters, gang warfare, internet porn, and inequality between the rich and poor in our countries on their media. Most Americans have a really hard time putting themselves in someone elses shoes and seeing how someone else might see the life they are living, to many Muslims, we are Godless heathens, in a culture run by decadence etc etc etc

To bad they can't accept that our life-style is not really their problem. Focusing on the sins of others distracts one from dealing with their own. That should be their main concern.

I accept they have a lot to be pissed about, but they really need a leader like a Martin Luther King to promote peace and equality, not terror.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, everyone should be able to insult other's views and beliefs without violent reaction, but let's face it, there are certain things that people know are off limits. Would it not be foolish to insult someone's spouse or loved one and not expect a reaction from them. You state that we need to be free to attack ideas and beliefs so that we can progress as a society and I couldn't agree more. However, I don't see where the people at Charlie Hebdo were criticizing a particular view or idea, they were intentionally provoking a group of people that were itching for a reason to use their religion to justify a violent response. My point is, just as people shouldn't react violently to things that upset them, I don't think that people should go out of their way to provoke or insult people just because they can.

Hey, I agree for the most part, but you obviously don't appreciate the value of artistic expression as much as I do. The purpose of good art is to get a reaction and alert your audience to something whether it be beautiful or evil. This got a tremendous reaction, and the cartoonist died in an attempt to show the world how insane these people are. You can't say they weren't effective. Obviously even they weren't expecting brutal murder, but that was, like I've said, completely out of their control.

 

[leibowde84]

From Amedinhjad to the pope to RF members, religious people feel free to insult and lie about me, a gay man, with impunity.

Why is finding the shoe on the other foot such a problem?

Tom

Know nothing know it all's have a hard time accepting defeat. Stay strong and know that the weirdies will die off in another generation or so. Tolerance is making a comeback. Live and let live.

 

[Reza02]

Why do you feel tha religion should be off-limits to criticism? I am a Christian, and I welcome criticism as it forces me to question my faith ... a practice that is essential in being a good religious person.

All in all, this is an issue of freedom. Muslims are welcome to follow the rules of their religion, but they have no right to expect others to follow the rules as well. The only reason why Muhammad wouldn't be able to be drawn would be the rules of Islam. So why do you expect non-Muslims and the non-religious to follow the rules of Islam or even respect them? That seems to me to be forcing Islam on those that don't want it.

Belifs are important for everybody.
We are humans and our nature says we should respect each other belifs.
So Islam says you mustn't insult another religions.
I'm Muslim so my belifs are important for myself, And you are Christian so your belifs are important for yourself.
I can criticise you and you can criticise me but if someone insult our religion we make angry. Don't we?

 

[Reza02]

Criticism is ok, but insulting is not necessary.

If they only draw without adding vulgarity it would have been much better.
And i say it in general not just about religion.

You are right but I think "they" means ISIS and radicalists not Muslims.

 

[leibowde84]

Belifs are important for everybody.
We are humans and our nature says we should respect each other belifs.
So Islam says you mustn't insult another religions.
I'm Muslim so my belifs are important for myself, And you are Christian so your belifs are important for yourself.
I can criticise you and you can criticise me but if someone insult our religion we make angry. Don't we?

I can honestly say that, since insulting religious beliefs and dogma is not personal, there is nothing of the sort that would make me "angry." This might be because I am comfortable with my own faith, but religion is fair game just like anything else.

How is it insulting someone personally when you make fun of a religious tradition?

 

[leibowde84]

I can honestly say that, since insulting religious beliefs and dogma is not personal, there is nothing of the sort that would make me "angry." This might be because I am comfortable with my own faith, but religion is fair game just like anything else.

How is it insulting someone personally when you make fun of a religious tradition?

Just because someone takes something personally doesn't mean that it is necessary a personal insult.

 

[leibowde84]

Belifs are important for everybody.
We are humans and our nature says we should respect each other belifs.
So Islam says you mustn't insult another religions.
I'm Muslim so my belifs are important for myself, And you are Christian so your belifs are important for yourself.
I can criticise you and you can criticise me but if someone insult our religion we make angry. Don't we?

Personal: of, affecting, or belonging to a particular person rather than to anyone else.

- How does religion fit in here? I can't see how it would unless you completely change the meaning of the word "personal."

 

[viole]

It was near two weeks ago that two ISIS terrorists killed 14 persons including 2 Muslims and after this time French goverment began insulting to all that Islam sacred. Terrorists were two radicalists but question is if two radicalists were responsible for the attacks why Islam were insulted?
Whether these events occurred without knowledge of French goverment?
Why the French goverment began to desacration of mosques instead of retaliation by ISIS terrorists in Iraq and Syria? Are the French goverment has released just a village from ISIS terrorists in Iraq or Syria? Is it logical?
Why desecration? Why burning mosques? Why caricature?
If two radicalists were atacked why French caricaturists are making their caricatures of prophet Mohammad?
Insulting religions is forbidden in Islam and nobody insults other relogions in Middle East contries.
Why French goverment is accusing Iran of violating human rights, while Muslims aren't safe in this country?
However we see Christians are living in Islamic countries such as Syria, Lebanon,etc. And they are as same as other people.


Translated mostly with Google translate

Why do you guys perceive making fun of the prophet as an insult to you?

I would expect the prophet might find this less than ideal. But why do you get so all revved up if long term in the afterlife you will be vindicated, anyway?

Ciao

- viole

 

[leibowde84]

Why do you guys perceive making fun of the prophet an insult to you?

I would expect the prophet might find this less than ideal. But why do you get so all revved up if long term in the afterlife you will vindicated, anyway?

Ciao

- viole

I am under the same confusion. I don't understand why someone would define an insult to a religion as "personal." They need to look up the word in the dictionary and get back to us.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Just because someone takes something personally doesn't mean that it is necessary a personal insult.

Yes, good point. Though I'm thinking that racist comments for example might not necessarily be aimed at an individual.

 

[Pastek]

Why do you guys perceive making fun of the prophet as an insult to you?

I am under the same confusion. I don't understand why someone would define an insult to a religion as "personal." They need to look up the word in the dictionary and get back to us.

Well, sodomy and pornographic poses are seen as insults and not only by muslims, many christians have this feeling too.

In case you don't know christians sued 14 times Charlie Hebdo .
Why ? Because in their sight they were insulted.

Anyway, i think people have still the right to have this feeling and to say it.

 

[viole]

Well, sodomy and pornographic poses are seen as insults and not only by muslims, many christians have this feeling too.

In case you don't know christians sued 14 times Charlie Hebdo .
Why ? Because in their sight they were insulted.

Anyway, i think people have still the right to have this feeling and to say it.

Of course they have the right. And, of course, I include all (sensitive) religious people.

I am not sure it is logically justified, though, if they really believe in their version of divinity.

Can you imagine darwinists suing a paper or go on a killing spree because it makes fun of Darwin? Or atheists suing a paper for making fun of, well, their lack of belief or because of their alleged stupidity of believing that all this comes form chance (whatever that means)?

Ciao

- viole

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, good point. Though I'm thinking that racist comments for example might not necessarily be aimed at an individual.

Well, if they are directing at an individual then it is personal.

 

[leibowde84]

Well, sodomy and pornographic poses are seen as insults and not only by muslims, many christians have this feeling too.

In case you don't know christians sued 14 times Charlie Hebdo .
Why ? Because in their sight they were insulted.

Anyway, i think people have still the right to have this feeling and to say it.

They might feel that way but they are certainly not directed at an individual, so, by definition they are not personal insults.

 

[Pastek]

Can you imagine darwinists suing a paper or go on a killing spree because it makes fun of Darwin? Or atheists suing a paper for making fun of, well, their lack of belief or because of their alleged stupidity of believing that all this comes form chance (whatever that means)?

I don't approve killing as i said.

But i can understand that people sue a paper if they feel insulted, this is democracy.
Religion is part of people life, some live it everyday in their heart and acts.
Some may be sad, feel insulted, some don't care ... everyone react differently. But of course, violence is not an answer.

 

[Pastek]

They might feel that way but they are certainly not directed at an individual, so, by definition they are not personal insults.

You're right, but it's like someone insulting your mother/friend/child.
You are maybe not the target, but it's like you were insulted too.