Why insult?

[viole]

I don't approve killing as i said.

But i can understand that people sue a paper if they feel insulted, this is democracy.
Religion is part of people life, some live it everyday in their heart and acts.
Some may be sad, feel insulted, some don't care ... everyone react differently. But of course, violence is not an answer.

Yes, but my question is: why do you understand it?

I don't want to be inquisitive, but it really makes no sense. Is God like those middle age ladies whose honor needed to defended with all available (legal) means?

Why don't you simply think, as I would presumably do if I really believed in Him: laugh as much as you want, you will see when the time comes who was right.

Ciao

- viole

 

[leibowde84]

You're right, but it's like someone insulting your mother/friend/child.
You are maybe not the target, but it's like you were insulted too.

Those are all examples of personal insults ... insults directed at an individual. Insulting a religion is attacking a set of ideas or beliefs. These things are not people, so the insults are not personal. The mere fact that people take them personally does not change this.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Why you kill?

Kill no good!

Okay, I'll get serious. Insulting religion is forbidden in Islam alright, but no action to be taken by Islamic laws exists against it. The Prophet was insulted and harmed. Mother Aisha bad mouthed some of those and the Prophet told her to never do it. People physically abused him but he refused even to pray for their demise. Muslims saying to behead and kill those who insult Islam are wrong. As long as the other side is not a war enemy that wants to kill Muslims or exile them from their home and take their land, Muslims should never harm them. All these atrocities are not part of Islam. The right approach to do against such insults is to negotiate with the producers verbally or politically.

It is unfortunate that so many Muslims are so uneducated.

But anyways, those producers already know that there are some crazy Muslims and that Muslims in general don't like their beliefs insulted. Why do those stupid producers keep insisting on it/pushing it? You know there is a psychopath near you, would you provoke them and risk your life? Let alone having that psychopath telling you they don't like it? Just how stupid are those producers? The producers are also to blame here, not just those extremest Muslims. Forget about the stupid freedom of speech. What good does it do if you know it will bring death to you?

 

[leibowde84]

Why you kill?

Kill no good!

Okay, I'll get serious. Insulting religion is forbidden in Islam alright, but no action to be taken by Islamic laws exists against it. The Prophet was insulted and harmed. Mother Aisha bad mouthed some of those and the Prophet told her to never do it. People physically abused him but he refused even to pray for their demise. Muslims saying to behead and kill those who insult Islam are wrong. As long as the other side is not a war enemy that wants to kill Muslims or exile them from their home and take their land, Muslims should never harm them. All these atrocities are not part of Islam. The right approach to do against such insults is to negotiate with the producers verbally or politically.

It is unfortunate that so many Muslims are so uneducated.

But anyways, those producers already know that there are some crazy Muslims and that Muslims in general don't like their beliefs insulted. Why do those stupid producers keep insisting on it/pushing it? You know there is a psychopath near you, would you provoke them and risk your life? Let alone having that psychopath telling you they don't like it? Just how stupid are those producers? The producers are also to blame here, not just those extremest Muslims. Forget about the stupid freedom of speech. What good does it do if you know it will bring death to you?

Refraining from publishing the cartoons is the same as bending over to terrorism. We can harm our freedom of expression out of fear. That is why so many people consider them heroes ... myself included.

Plus, it was pretty effective art. Vulgarity has artistic value, and art is meant to provoke a reaction. So, to say it was unsuccessful is an outright lie.

If crazies react to cartoons like this, make more cartoons so everyone is clear who the crazies are.

 

[Reza02]

Why do you guys perceive making fun of the prophet as an insult to you?

I would expect the prophet might find this less than ideal. But why do you get so all revved up if long term in the afterlife you will be vindicated, anyway?

Ciao

- viole

Do you love your family? If someone insults your mother then what's your action? Is he insulted you?
I love my prophet. I love my religion as same as my mother or my family.

Because it says humans are the same. Our Creator is the mercifull. World has some targets. Prophets are the best men like Muhammad, Jesus, Muses. It says we are created and we will die but or ghost doesn't die after we dead. It says if you do good works you will be remunerated.
It says you will meet your Creator and then you might be happy or unhappy.
And it says a lot of things that nobody can say those but our Creator.

 

[Pastek]

Yes, but my question is: why do you understand it?

I don't want to be inquisitive, but it really makes no sense. Is God like those middle age ladies whose honor needed to defended with all available (legal) means?

But who said i care ?
I find some drawings vulgare and some funny. If some think it's an insult, that's their right and i can understand it. A feeling is just a feeling. It becomes a problem only when it leads to violence.

Why don't you simply think, as I would presumably do if I really believed in Him: laugh as much as you want, you will see when the time comes who was right.

I don't like to feel that way. I'm not the kind of people who is happy in advance for people's fate if it should be a bad one (exept for criminals).

 

[viole]

Do you love your family? If someone insults your mother then what's your action? Is he insulted you?
I love my prophet. I love my religion as same as my mother or my family.

Because it says humans are the same. Our Creator is the mercifull. World has some targets. Prophets are the best men like Muhammad, Jesus, Muses. It says we are created and we will die but or ghost doesn't die after we dead. It says if you do good works you will be remunerated.
It says you will meet your Creator and then you might be happy or unhappy.
And it says a lot of things that nobody can say those but our Creator.

Well, I don't expect my mother or my family will vindicate me or provide the justice I would seek. Not being almighty, immortal, eternally just or whatever your god can.

You give me the impression you don't trust God having these qualities either.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Smart_Guy]

Refraining from publishing the cartoons is the same as bending over to terrorism. We can harm our freedom of expression out of fear. That is why so many people consider them heroes ... myself included.

Plus, it was pretty effective art. Vulgarity has artistic value, and art is meant to provoke a reaction. So, to say it was unsuccessful is an outright lie.

If crazies react to cartoons like this, make more cartoons so everyone is clear who the crazies are.

The cartoons was a stupid move and a complete useless effort to fight terrorism. They made the cartoon and got themselves killed. How good was that? Freedom of speech is worthless compared to risking their lives and eventually lost them.

Go ahead, you make more cartoons and cause death to those around you and yourself if you want, but don't tell others to do it. I'm sure some of the victims don't even have any fault in having those cartoon out.

Freedom of speech is over rated in such cases.

 

[YmirGF]

What's childish, and against the TOS rules of most forums, is to deliberately insult people or their faith.

Oddly, there are no rules about insulting the intelligence of fellow human animals.

 

[Lyndon]

Its kind of like going into an all black neighborhood and yelling "I hate n words". Sure you have freedom of speech, but its an incredibly stupid thing to do.

 

[Pastek]

Vulgarity has artistic value, and art is meant to provoke a reaction.

I didn't find the artistic value here : charlie hebdo trinité - Recherche Google

I also think i missed the funny of it.

 

[Reza02]

You give me the impression you don't trust God having these qualities either.

Of you make a robbot you might know all of its qualities, You have a target, You know after it did its works what happens for this, You send some signals to guide it,etc.
You do all of this actions just because you are its creator.
Of cource it was an example.

 

[leibowde84]

The cartoons was a stupid move and a complete useless effort to fight terrorism. They made the cartoon and got themselves killed. How good was that? Freedom of speech is worthless compared to risking their lives and eventually lost them.

Go ahead, you make more cartoons and cause death to those around you and yourself if you want, but don't tell others to do it. I'm sure some of the victims don't even have any fault in having those cartoon out.

Freedom of speech is over rated in such cases.

They did a great job fighting terrorism. So many people turned on the extremists because of this and it showed how pathetic this form of Islam truly is. I think it was very effective.

Cartoons don't kill people ... terrorists do!! Anyone who is willing to be violent over a drawing isn't worth considering when it comes to free speech.

 

[cns3e]

Those are all examples of personal insults ... insults directed at an individual. Insulting a religion is attacking a set of ideas or beliefs. These things are not people, so the insults are not personal. The mere fact that people take them personally does not change this.

Relgion is make up of individuals, individuals that believe in a set of ideas or beliefs.

 

[Lyndon]

They did a great job fighting terrorism. So many people turned on the extremists because of this and it showed how pathetic this form of Islam truly is. I think it was very effective.

Cartoons don't kill people ... terrorists do!! Anyone who is willing to be violent over a drawing isn't worth considering when it comes to free speech.

So effective that an immigrant from Somalia has just been stabbed to death and swastikas painted on his home .in Germany

 

[Reza02]

Why you kill?

Kill no good!

Okay, I'll get serious. Insulting religion is forbidden in Islam alright, but no action to be taken by Islamic laws exists against it. The Prophet was insulted and harmed. Mother Aisha bad mouthed some of those and the Prophet told her to never do it. People physically abused him but he refused even to pray for their demise. Muslims saying to behead and kill those who insult Islam are wrong. As long as the other side is not a war enemy that wants to kill Muslims or exile them from their home and take their land, Muslims should never harm them. All these atrocities are not part of Islam. The right approach to do against such insults is to negotiate with the producers verbally or politically.

It is unfortunate that so many Muslims are so uneducated.

But anyways, those producers already know that there are some crazy Muslims and that Muslims in general don't like their beliefs insulted. Why do those stupid producers keep insisting on it/pushing it? You know there is a psychopath near you, would you provoke them and risk your life? Let alone having that psychopath telling you they don't like it? Just how stupid are those producers? The producers are also to blame here, not just those extremest Muslims. Forget about the stupid freedom of speech. What good does it do if you know it will bring death to you?

I will answer you soon.

 

[leibowde84]

Its kind of like going into an all black neighborhood and yelling "I hate n words". Sure you have freedom of speech, but its an incredibly stupid thing to do.

It is very different. The cartoons were artistic expression, and very successful at that. Yelling the n-word is not an attempt to express oneself. And, even if that happened, I'd bet the person would simply get beaten up, not shot with automatic weapons. See the difference?

 

[leibowde84]

So effective that an immigrant from Somalia has just been stabbed to death and swastikas painted on his home .in Germany

Lol. Not sure how you can blame a drawing for that rather than pointing the blame at cold-blooded murderers. Can you explain this logic?

All in all, this kind of stuff is never going to stop. It is up to every person individually to practice self-control and settle arguments with words instead of violence. Cartoonists don't kill people, but the extremists certainly do.

All blame should rest squarely on their shoulders.

 

[leibowde84]

I didn't find the artistic value here : charlie hebdo trinité - Recherche Google

I also think i missed the funny of it.

I certainly do. Art is meant to evoke a reaction and teach something. We all are reacting (whether that be negatively or positively is beside the point), and we all learned a bit about how savage and ignorant these extremists are. So, I'd say it was pretty darn effective art.

 

[leibowde84]

Relgion is make up of individuals, individuals that believe in a set of ideas or beliefs.

Right, so what's your point? Every idea or belief is held by individuals. But, that does not change the basic logical rule that attacking an idea or belief is not a personal attack on an individual. Do you disagree with this?

Here is the definition of the word "personal." You tell me how attacking ideas or beliefs could fit in with this:

Personal (adj.)
1. of, affecting, or belonging to a particular person rather than to anyone else.