Why is evolution even still a debate?

[Audie]

“Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says, "Well, that's not how I choose to think about water."? All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn't share those values, the conversation is over. If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?”

Perhaps water is two parts hydrogen and one part water but we know nothing about any of the parts or what holds them together. Maybe we don't know why they are attracted to the center of the earth and every other molecule or atom in the entire universe. Maybe we know nothing about how these parts came into existence or when and what any individual one has done since. Maybe we don't know how one such molecule differs from another or how even the differences between their electrons. Maybe we don't know what role water plays in any individual's life or consciousness.

Maybe we don't know many quadrillions of times more than what we do know.

"Perhaps" water is H20?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I didn't say anything about what you think you see. What I said was:

Nature does the demonstrating.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Similarly, ALL life was single celled 3 billion years ago.

Lol, if you think you know what was happening 3 billion years ago I have some Beach front property in Arizona for you!

 

[Audie]

Do we have to? Genesis describes how creation came to be, here we are, when we die our bodies return to dust. I don’t have to use the same rules that Science does, I can but I’m a Spirit, Soul and Body so why would I? I know God and this is in the Spirit not a material means that Science can test. Science is blind to the spiritual world. If someone saw a person rise from the dead, science would explain that away, wouldn’t see the spiritual power but only detect the result and explain it away.

Science has its own set of rules that tries to explain life, as far as I can tell Science is inadequate at explaining life, all it can do is look at the material things and try to explain but cannot test or know spiritual matters. Cannot determine the origin of life, how we get our consciousness, intellect etc.

Yet again we see displayed the only things that
support " theism"-falsehoods assertions and ninsense- on display.
The MIGHT be something to it butsaid display hardly supports any of it.

"Genesis describes" Of course!
Religion specializes in explaining things away

Explanation with no facts is worth nothing.

"Goldilocks and the 3 bears" describes a little girls adventure in the woods. So what?

As for your other claims against science,
what it can or cannot do, there are things science has not done but that hardly says
what it can do.

It can sure do more than spiritual- spiritual,
which has accomplished zero.




Science isnt " blind " to spiritual matters.
These are spiritual practices such as a young
warrior going on a spirit quest- alone, drummimg, chnatimg, fasting, until a Vision comes. As it will! Its neuro physiology, as is the effect of peyote or LSD.
Its religion thats blind to what is going on with this "spiritual" stuff.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Evidence of what?

Of shared common ancestry of all species, of change over time, of speciation.

That things change? Sure any creationist would agree. Evidence that we evolved from another critter? Very debatable

Nope. Pretty much genetic fact.

Evidence that everything started with a single celled organism? Again, very debatable.

Nope. Pretty much genetic fact.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Of shared common ancestry of all species, of change over time, of speciation.



Nope. Pretty much genetic fact.



Nope. Pretty much genetic fact.

Pretty much anything but a fact.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Sperm and eggs are half cells. Seventh grade science.

Created from two fully formed adults... not evolved from nothing with no mechanism.

 

[Audie]

Of shared common ancestry of all species, of change over time, of speciation.



Nope. Pretty much genetic fact.



Nope. Pretty much genetic fact.

People debate whether the earth is flat.

To me, "debateable" ought to include at least some tiny chance of a equal contest.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

its really very simple . it cant be duplicated in the laboratory

What can't be duplicated in a laboratory?

Are you talking about something like the evolution from the primate ancestors of chimps and humans to a human, a process which took some 7 million years in nature?

If yes, why would you expect such to be duplicated in a lab setting?
That's like demanding to create a massive black hole in a lab to "prove" that there is one at the center of the milky way. Utterly absurd and intellectually dishonest.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You see evidence for God in nature, but don't see evidence for evolution (even though experts in biology do) so this suggests your ability to assess evidence is very poor.

I see plenty of changes in nature. That doesn't equal everything evolving from some single celled organism. Organisms adapt to the environment, that's all we are observing. Cats are still cats, canines are still canines etc.

 

[Audie]

What can't be duplicated in a laboratory?

Are you talking about something like the evolution from the primate ancestors of chimps and humans to a human, a process which took some 7 million years in nature?

If yes, why would you expect such to be duplicated in a lab setting?
That's like demanding to create a massive black hole in a lab to "prove" that there is one at the center of the milky way. Utterly absurd and intellectually dishonest.

Maybe just a volcano?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

evolution is a theory, to become a law it must be duplicated in the laboratory

Learn2science.

Theories aren't promoted to laws.
Theories explain laws.

Theories are the graduation stage of ideas in science known as hypothesis.
When a hypothesis is sufficiently confirmed and supported by evidence and testing, it gets promoted to theory. There's nothing beyond theory.

Facts = observations; pieces of data
Laws = abstractions of data/facts within a certain scope
Theory = models of explanation that explain sets of facts and laws in certain scopes.

Theories never become laws.
Laws were never theories.

Please learn the basics of scientific jargon before saying ignorant things.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I doubt our "theory" of "Evolution" will stand the test of time or the test of experiment.

It already did.
It sounds like you are unaware of everything that happened and was discovered in the relevant fields since darwin presented his origin of species...

 

[Wildswanderer]

Clearly that's not true, since virtually everyone who is actually educated in the field agrees that the ToE is valid. Do you honestly think that you know more about the subject than people who have spent most of their lives examining the science? What other scientific theories have you 'studied enough' to dismiss them as false, even though 99% of the scientific community consider them to be valid?

Well if you start by calling me a liar, there's nothing to discuss.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But it’s the best theory going. What have you got?

God created certain kinds of organisms who had the built in genetics to adapt to the environment. Some died off due to cataclysmic events, some survive with minor changes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

all any can do is reproduce according to its kind

Evolution doesn't say otherwise.
In fact, if a member of species X would produce a member of something else then X, evolution theory will be falsified.

Count on creationists to state such things proudly while thinking they have a point..............

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It shouldn't be. A tiny minority of people, even a tiny minority of Christians, have problems with evolution. And constantly debating them on it gives them more platform and attention than they deserve. Even keeps it in the public consciousness longer.

All debating evolution does is give the anti sentiment more air while it's suffocating.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you see Him also in the Ebola virus? What about seeing God in monoclonal wild cell duplication in kids (aka cancer)?

Ciao

- viole

Those are due to the sin curse. Everything good comes down from the Father.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Evidence of what? Only that current evolutionary mechanisms have “explanatory deficits,” which means they explain how organisms *survive*, but not how they *arrive.*

You know that the book that darwin published is called the "origins of species", right?
How species arrive is exactly what evolution theory explains. Literally. That's its entire raison d'être, in fact....

For example, how did the first functional bacterial flagellum originate? You can’t explain it. No one can, without falling back on suppositions, i.e., philosophical iterations.

Educate yourself

The evidence isn’t there…. about any of the cell’s complex molecular machinery self -organizing themselves.

bzzzzt.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There are probably more creationists than flat earthers since the shape of the earth is easier to see than the evolution of the tree of life over geological time,

It's not a tree of life. That's a crock we've been sold .. it's a wild bush with a lot of branches missing.