Why is evolution even still a debate?

[F1fan]

3hy

Not. Science isn't supposed to be about speculation.

Right, that's why your religious beliefs are irrelevant.

No one has to prove it didn't happen when there's no evidence it did.

But you do need to prove your God exists if you are going to push your religious beliefs as a claim. Notice you never even try to demonstrate your God exists.

 

[Polymath257]

[QUOTE="cladking, post: 7620324, member: 63799"
Perhaps water is two parts hydrogen and one part water but we know nothing about any of the parts or what holds them together.[/QUOTE]

Simply false. A water molecule *is* made from two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen. of that there is no doubt. Furthermore, we *do* know what creates those chemical bonds. and how they work. We know this in precise, mathematical detail.

Maybe we don't know why they are attracted to the center of the earth and every other molecule or atom in the entire universe. Maybe we know nothing about how these parts came into existence or when and what any individual one has done since. Maybe we don't know how one such molecule differs from another or how even the differences between their electrons. Maybe we don't know what role water plays in any individual's life or consciousness.

Maybe we don't know many quadrillions of times more than what we do know.

And yet, we *do* know some of these things.

Maybe we don't know everything, but that doesn't mean we know nothing.

 

[F1fan]

Lol, seriously? That's not an answer.

Sorry but in science natural processes is the ONLY explanation. You offer no alternatives.

You can't have a process without something to cause it in the first place.

That's bad luck for your religious beliefs. Science has the Big Bang. There is actually an explanation. You offer none.

 

[Polymath257]

Lol, if you think you know what was happening 3 billion years ago I have some Beach front property in Arizona for you!

We know enough about what was happening 3 billion years ago to be clear about the claim that all life on Earth at that time was single celled.

Once again, we don't need to know everything in order to know something.

 

[Valjean]

No one and that’s why I’m wondering why you believe all of Creation came to be from nothing.

I believe it came from no thing, but from nothing -- only the religious believe that. That would be magic.

What ever happened to the life that was supposedly created from non living materials in the Miller experiment? Surely that life was self sustaining in the lab, right? It has become something by now hasn’t it?

You are ignorant of the example/evidence you're citing, here. The experiment created no life, as every schoolchild knows.
Were you home-schooled?

 

[Valjean]

Wildswanderer said: ↑
Lol, if you think you know what was happening 3 billion years ago I have some Beach front property in Arizona for you!

You seem rather ignorant of the mechanisms of science. Do you know why science makes the various claims it does;how it came to these conclusions.?
These claims are evidence-based; tested evidence based -- unlike the faith-based fantasies of the religious. They're testable, predictive and falsifiable.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I believe it came from no thing, but from nothing -- only the religious believe that. That would be magic.
You are ignorant of the example/evidence you're citing, here. The experiment created no life, as every schoolchild knows.
Were you home-schooled?

Well then I think that’s the closest scientists have come, yet you believe in the natural process apart from God is the answer to life.
By the way, this is a religious forum so brush up on the terminology, magic is satanic and just a counterfeit to the living God and Creator of the Universe.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Were you home-schooled?

You know every kid should be properly “home schooled “, whether they go to public, private school or not. Maybe that was where you went off course in your communication and ethics.

 

[F1fan]

Well then I think that’s the closest scientists have come, yet you believe in the natural process apart from God is the answer to life.
By the way, this is a religious forum so brush up on the terminology, magic is satanic and just a counterfeit to the living God and Creator of the Universe.

The Urey-Miller experiment showed that inorganic chemicals can become organic under certain conditions which can exist in nature. So that is an example of how the building blocks of life (not life itself, be careful to get that part right) can form naturally. No magic needed. Sorry.

 

[F1fan]

You know every kid should be properly “home schooled “,...

The problem that we found during Covid is that kids need to social experience of schools. And what is "properly" home schooled? Are you referring to what will adequately prepare children in the modern age? Or indoctrination? Do atheist parents meet your standards?

...whether they go to public, private school or not. Maybe that was where you went off course in your communication and ethics.

Ouch, little passive aggressive insult there.

 

[Polymath257]

Because at some point you had to have an in between. You can't get a canine from a feline and if you reverse it you still have the same issue. I know, let's pretend a creature that looked perhaps somewhat like a Fisher was the ancestor of dogs and cats! Even though we only have a few of it's bones we can get there if we fill in the gaps with guesswork.

Once again, we have cats and dogs now. There were none 50 million years ago. But *something* 50 million years ago was an ancestor of dogs and *something* 50 million years ago was an ancestor of cats.

That means that something that was not a dog evolved into modern dogs and something that was not a cat evolved into modern cats.

Now, the remarkable thing is that cats and dogs had a *common* ancestor, but even that is not required to prove evolution occurred.

The bones of the animal 50 million years ago is of some animal that is *closest* to what a common ancestor would have been like. But was it actually the common ancestor or just something very similar and related? We don't know. But, again, that is not required to know that evolution occurred and that dogs and cats had a common ancestor.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The Urey-Miller experiment showed that inorganic chemicals can become organic under certain conditions which can exist in nature. So that is an example of how the building blocks of life (not life itself, be careful to get that part right) can form naturally. No magic needed. Sorry.

And no life created as some have falsely said in the past. If scientist can’t even sustain that life form in a lab, no way could it be sustained in the
Universe apart from the life source - Jesus Christ.

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This is one reason why we call this the religious forum and not the science forum. Science cannot explain much about life.

 

[Polymath257]

The T3SS was once believed to be the BF’s precursor, but isn’t anymore due to evidence.

No, it was acknowledged that the ancestor was *similar*but not identical to some specific secretory protein. The T3SS is a *modern* secretory protein. The actual ancestor would have been long ago and different in specifics.

See how *beliefs* enter the picture? But it’s good that the truth was discovered, and beliefs adjusted accordingly!

Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for many religious beliefs.

And, it seems there was a great deal of misreading about the specifics.

 

[Polymath257]

Of course it is. It's absolutely absurd to speculate that life came from non life with no evidence.

The evidence is that life is a chemical process. And the evidence is that the appropriate chemicals were around *before* life got started.

 

[F1fan]

And no life created as some have falsely said in the past.

Only falsely claimed by creationists.

If scientist can’t even sustain that life form in a lab, no way could it be sustained in the
Universe apart from the life source - Jesus Christ.

Why do you keep dragging your religious belief into this? It's irrelevant. Get your science right.

This is one reason why we call this the religious forum and not the science forum. Science cannot explain much about life.

This doesn't mean theists get to be dishonest about science.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The problem that we found during Covid is that kids need to social experience of schools. And what is "properly" home schooled? Are you referring to what will adequately prepare children in the modern age? Or indoctrination? Do atheist parents meet your standards?


Ouch, little passive aggressive insult there.

Children need to be brought up properly so they can learn and think for themselves, the discipline comes from parents, teachers shouldn’t have to be the disciplinarians but teach what they are experts in. A lot more learning would happen. Covid has shown parents that some schools have been involved in indoctrination instead of teaching so I’m glad parents have gotten involved more now.

 

[Polymath257]

Not. Science isn't supposed to be about speculation. No one has to prove it didn't happen when there's no evidence it did.

Wrong in multiple ways.

Scientists speculate all the time. But they back up that speculation with *testing* and *observation*. They *try* to prove their speculation *wrong*. They try to do this in as many ways as they can think of. Ten they ask for help to try more ways. And, of course, they limit themselves to ideas that *could* be proved wrong via observation if they are, in fact, wrong.

And, after none of those attempts have managed to prove their speculation wrong, that speculation becomes a theory.

 

[Polymath257]

No one and that’s why I’m wondering why you believe all of Creation came to be from nothing. What ever happened to the life that was supposedly created from non living materials in the Miller experiment? Surely that life was self sustaining in the lab, right? It has become something by now hasn’t it?

Nobody claimed that life was created in the Urey-Miller experiment.

What that experiment did is show that the basic chemicals that made up life could be created in environments similar to those that existed on the ancient Earth.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Why do you keep dragging your religious belief into this? It's irrelevant. Get your science right.

This is a religious forum and The Bible is the true account of Creation so I do have my science right.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nobody claimed that life was created in the Urey-Miller experiment.

What that experiment did is show that the basic chemicals that made up life could be created in environments similar to those that existed on the ancient Earth.

And big deal if it wasn’t self sustaining, still a failure.
You don’t know what the environment was on ancient earth, just a guess.