Why is evolution even still a debate?

[F1fan]

Does anything exist above what we naturally know? Does life exist on a planet 95 million light years away?

We don't know if it does or doesn't.

Therefore we cannot show evidence for anything we don't know and asking for evidence of what isn't known is pointless.

Which is a great response to those claiming all issues I raised is indeed true and real, albeit without evidence.

 

[cataway]

Kind. Define kind. Do you mean species?

Gen 1 :21

 

[F1fan]

I think it's easier to answer what I don't believe before I answer as to what I do believe. I don't believe that God created mutations, although they're there. Now when I say mutations I mean debilitating mutations. I understand the reasoning behind the idea that organisms keep multiplying and environment may force one type of moth, for example, to multiply and duplicate a particular group. But that does not mean that I accept the idea that dinosaurs, for instance, became birds. Since I believe what the Bible says, there are different kinds of organisms. Interestingly, the Bible writer even explained that the type of flesh of one organism is different from another. So while I personally don't know how God did it, I no longer accept the theory of evolution, as if it happened that survival of the fittest, or natural selection is the making of evolving organisms. I do not find it unbelievable now that God is responsible for the life we have. The more I look, the more interesting it becomes to 'see' life, how it works. I was reading, for instance, about "zombie crabs." They are just beginning to be studied. Exactly how these things came about, I can't say and frankly, I don't think anyone can say either. Therefore, I attribute many things to the genius, or creation by God. When I say creation, I can also mean the prime force or mover of life.

So do you think all experts in science are wrong since their work and results does not align with what you believe?

 

[F1fan]

Gen 1 :21

Why is the Bible relevant to how we describe organisms? We have science that does it better.

 

[firedragon]

Evidence from biology, paleontology, geology, archaeology, zoology, cosmology(if you want to talk about the universe too), etc has an over abundance of evidence.

The other side has the bible and stories of the past.

I'm not saying any god(s) do or do not exit. Heck maybe they do and one created life as a science experiment to see how it would turn out.

The whole evolution vs creation argument breeds hate and distrust world wide

That's my thoughts anyways.

Evolution vs Creation is a false dichotomy.

 

[ppp]

Gen 1 :21

That is not a definition.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I have studied enough to see the "evidence" is very sketchy.

Clearly that's not true, since virtually everyone who is actually educated in the field agrees that the ToE is valid. Do you honestly think that you know more about the subject than people who have spent most of their lives examining the science? What other scientific theories have you 'studied enough' to dismiss them as false, even though 99% of the scientific community consider them to be valid?

 

[blü 2]

Evolution vs Creation is a false dichotomy.

How so?

I see real and serious issues dividing the two sides.

 

[firedragon]

How so?

I see real and serious issues dividing the two sides.

Because there were theists who taught evolution.

 

[Watchmen]

Depends what you mean by evolution.
No one has shown that we evolved from a single celled organism.

But it’s the best theory going. What have you got?

 

[F1fan]

Because there were theists who taught evolution.

There surely still are.

But it is a certain category of Christians who reject the science and have adopted a false religious alternative. Oddly even the creationists have divisions.

 

[We Never Know]

Evolution vs Creation is a false dichotomy.

How so? And to whom?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No I can't. One side has evidence, one side has hope.

Evidence of what? Only that current evolutionary mechanisms have “explanatory deficits,” which means they explain how organisms *survive*, but not how they *arrive.*

For example, how did the first functional bacterial flagellum originate? You can’t explain it. No one can, without falling back on suppositions, i.e., philosophical iterations.
The evidence isn’t there…. about any of the cell’s complex molecular machinery self -organizing themselves.

 

[We Never Know]

Evidence of what? Only that current evolutionary mechanisms have “explanatory deficits,” which means they explain how organisms *survive*, but not how they *arrive.*

For example, how did the first functional bacterial flagellum originate? You can’t explain it. No one can, without falling back on suppositions, i.e., philosophical iterations.
The evidence isn’t there…. about any of the cell’s complex molecular machinery self -organizing themselves.

"For example, how did the first functional bacterial flagellum originate?"

It either evolved that way or was created that way.

If it was created that way, how did it evolve past that?

 

[blü 2]

Because there were theists who taught evolution.

The argument is not with theists who hold with evolution. My believing friends and relatives are all comfortable with evolution.

The argument is, very largely, with Christian fundies, who insist that the bible is inerrant ─ no, seriously ─ so each species ─ oops, each 'kind' ─ was separately made by God. Unfortunately the method which God used is not explained.

 

[Brian2]

I think the debate should be "does a god exist and if a god does exist, did it have anything to do with our universe and life"

No one knows. Debate over

In pure logic that might be the case but we can go beyond that because pure logic is not all the faculties that we have.
It's not a matter of knowing, as in having proof. It is a matter of faith, just as it is a matter of faith to say that God does not exist. (no matter what a definition of "atheist" might be)
That said, I think the evidence points to there being a God who had something to do with our universe and life.

 

[Brian2]

Demonstrate a God exists. Demonstrate it created anything. Demonstrate how it made something from nothing.

If the religious can't offer any factual results, then we are left with science.

You should have begun with science and ended by saying that if science can't offer any factual results, then we are left with religion. And science cannot offer any factual results.
All that means that it is a matter of faith whether you believe or not.

 

[firedragon]

How so? And to whom?

One thing is, creation and evolution are not mutually exclusive by default. I really dont know when this exclusivity emerged.

The other thing is, when do you think evolution started to become an atheist monopoly? Think about it!

 

[firedragon]

The argument is not with theists who hold with evolution. My believing friends and relatives are all comfortable with evolution.

The argument is, very largely, with Christian fundies, who insist that the bible is inerrant ─ no, seriously ─ so each species ─ oops, each 'kind' ─ was separately made by God. Unfortunately the method which God used is not explained.

Is that the argument the OP is making?

 

[Suave]

Evidence of what? That things change? Sure any creationist would agree. Evidence that we evolved from another critter? Very debatable. Evidence that everything started with a single celled organism? Again, very debatable.

Endogenous retroviruses (ERVs)) provide the closest thing to a mathematical proof for evolution.. ERVs are the relics of ancient viral infections preserved in our DNA. The odd thing is many ERVs are located in exactly the same position on our genome and the chimpanzee genome! There are two explanations for the perfectly matched ERV locations. Either it is an unbelievable coincidence that viruses just by chance were inserted in exactly the same location in our genomes, or humans and chimps share a common ancestor. The chances that a virus was inserted at the exact same location is 1 in 3,000,000,000. Humans and chimps share 7 instances of viruses inserted at perfectly matched location. It was our common ancestor that was infected, and we both inherited the ERVs.

Reference: Johnson, Welkin E.; Coffin, John M. (1999-08-31). "Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 96(18): 10254–10260. Bibcode:1999PNAS...9610254J. doi:10.1073/pnas.96.18.10254. ISSN 0027-8424. PMC 17875. PMID 10468595.