Why is faith considered a virtue rather than the curse it really is?

[RomCat]

There is suffering in the world because
we have sinned.
Are sins even crucified the Son Of God.

 

[Apex]

If this thread were a man, it would be a drunk, weaving and puking man.

And if it were a cat?

 

[Skeptisch]

I'm just curious how many children God should let die from sickness and mulnutrition every day. What kind of a number would work for you? And when you've told me that God shouldn't let any children die, would you be so kind as to tell me at what age He should let people die? And by what means?

For a pantheist, like good old Albert, God is nature. The biblical God however is supernatural. He can even make the sun stand still.

Do you have a God, if yes, what is he good at?

 

[Ceridwen]

In one sense, this question of a personal God is the biggest thing I struggle with right now. It was Epicurus, I believe, who said, "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

On the other hand, I know many Christians who believe that bad things happen as a sort of test, a spur to get believers to do something about it. These people are very pro-active in their communities and even worldwide because they believe God has challenged them personally to do some good. So....I would call their faith a blessing not only to themselves, but to the rest of us as well.

 

[Apex]

For a pantheist, like good old Albert, God is nature. The biblical God however is supernatural. He can even make the sun stand still.

Do you have a God, if yes, what is he good at?

Why did you quote a question directed towards you when you made no attempt to answer it?

 

[Baydwin]

On the other hand, I know many Christians who believe that bad things happen as a sort of test, a spur to get believers to do something about it. These people are very pro-active in their communities and even worldwide because they believe God has challenged them personally to do some good. So....I would call their faith a blessing not only to themselves, but to the rest of us as well.

I don't know. Perhaps you are right in that they do good because of their beliefs, but I find the concept of a God who causes disasters resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people, and who does so as a test of the faithful a little nauseating.

 

[Ceridwen]

I don't know. Perhaps you are right in that they do good because of their beliefs, but I find the concept of a God who causes disasters resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people, and who does so as a test of the faithful a little nauseating.

Oh, I completely understand your nausea with that notion of God. I find it uncomfortable myself. However, I guess my point was that while their idea of God may not be the most pleasant, their faith itself can be a good thing.

Edit: Maybe a better way to say it might be that even though I don't necessarily like what they believe in, at least that faith can lead them to do good. Thus, I cannot begrudge them their faith when, in the end, their faith and mine lead us to the same actions.

 

[Copernicus]

Oh, I completely understand your nausea with that notion of God. I find it uncomfortable myself. However, I guess my point was that while their idea of God may not be the most pleasant, their faith itself can be a good thing.

Edit: Maybe a better way to say it might be that even though I don't necessarily like what they believe in, at least that faith can lead them to do good. Thus, I cannot begrudge them their faith when, in the end, their faith and mine lead us to the same actions.

My own view about faith is more neutral. I think that it tends to magnify behavior, whether it be in the direction of good or evil. People can use faith to justify just about any action. Dawkins acknowledges this point, as well, but he looks much worse when quoted as a sound byte. He usually criticizes the more extreme elements of Christianity, and his critics find it easy to turn his words into sweeping generalizations out of context. He does honestly believe that religion in general is bad for humanity, but that is a point worth debating.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is suffering in the world because
we have sinned.
Are sins even crucified the Son Of God.

yes, we get the gist of the basic elements of your faith. Regurgitating them in fortune cookie fashion isn't an effective method of persuasion.

 

[Smoke]

Why is faith considered a virtue rather than the curse it really is?

Because it's essential to many religions. If you can't believe six impossible things before breakfast, how are you ever going to believe in the authority of the Bible or the Pope or the Qur'an? How can you be a proper and willing servant to religious authority if you ask questions and demand rational answers?

If people valued reason more than faith, where would the Pope be today? Or Billy Graham? Or the Republican Party?

 

[John D]

I don't know. Perhaps you are right in that they do good because of their beliefs, but I find the concept of a God who causes disasters resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people, and who does so as a test of the faithful a little nauseating.

I Like to uderstand something.......why are natural disasters blamed on a God that many don't believe exists. I f he doesn't exists, the cause of natural disasters is caused by.......? maybe the laws of nature.
Many people die because of manmade disaters":hatred,war,greed,hunger,need for control and power.
And still faith will be there ...a faith in change...faith in a new tomorow.
Humankind's survival depends on faith and through faith comes hope.

 

[Copernicus]

I Like to uderstand something.......why are natural disasters blamed on a God that many don't believe exists. I f he doesn't exists, the cause of natural disasters is caused by.......? maybe the laws of nature.

Non-believers do not literally blame natural disasters on an imaginary being. Believers habitually attribute their good fortune to God. Non-believers take the position that one must then logically attribute bad fortune to God. To many of us, it seems impossible to reconcile the existence of an all-merciful, all-powerful God with the scale of suffering that exists in the world.

Many people die because of manmade disaters":hatred,war,greed,hunger,need for control and power.

True. Many people also experience manmade benefits: love, peace, bountiful food, democracy.

And still faith will be there ...a faith in change...faith in a new tomorow.
Humankind's survival depends on faith and through faith comes hope.

I agree. But faith in a god is not necessarily something that we need. Sometimes we just need to have faith in ourselves. We are the only ones who can get ourselves out of the holes we dig ourselves into.

 

[John D]

Non-believers do not literally blame natural disasters on an imaginary being. Believers habitually attribute their good fortune to God. Non-believers take the position that one must then logically attribute bad fortune to God. To many of us, it seems impossible to reconcile the existence of an all-merciful, all-powerful God with the scale of suffering that exists in the world.
I understand. I myself do not appreciate this issue of "bragging rights" - I think it is immature and counter productive. I you want to give praise to God -do it in the propper manner in the right place.


True. Many people also experience manmade benefits: love, peace, bountiful food, democracy.
Thank Go...(oops!!!)


I agree. But faith in a god is not necessarily something that we need. Sometimes we just need to have faith in ourselves. We are the only ones who can get ourselves out of the holes we dig ourselves into.

In the mountains ,near my home town there is a tribe of people that believes in their rain godess, every year there is this ceremony where she "makes" rain for the coming season. There is a whole community supporting and living of this belief.
They don't care about the rainy season and weather paterns. She made the rain and their lifes will be full this year.
It is this faith that keeps them going, without it, they believe they will not survive.
If you are able to believe only in yourself or in mankind as a whole - it is faith, I guess. And a blessing and not a curse as the OP suggests.
I Enjoy your posts !!

 

[Reverend Rick]

Non-believers do not literally blame natural disasters on an imaginary being.

Are you saying all insurance companies are religious?

Surely you have heard of "Acts of God". They don't pay those claims either.

 

[Skeptisch]

If people valued reason more than faith, where would the Pope be today? Or Billy Graham? Or the Republican Party?

:clap

 

[Skeptisch]

Why did you quote a question directed towards you when you made no attempt to answer it?

I thought I answered it.

We all seem to have different Gods. If God equals the laws of nature, Haiti is indeed an act of God. If the devil is responsible for the quake and God has supernatural powers and does not help, he is no better than the devil.

Does the LDS-God have supernatural powers?
Supernatural - not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws.

 

[madhatter85]

I thought I answered it.

We all seem to have different Gods. If God equals the laws of nature, Haiti is indeed an act of God. If the devil is responsible for the quake and God has supernatural powers and does not help, he is no better than the devil.

Does the LDS-God have supernatural powers?
Supernatural - not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws.

i would have to say no, however described as such only because I believe we have yet to scratch the surface as to what is physically possible scientifically.

 

[Copernicus]

In the mountains ,near my home town there is a tribe of people that believes in their rain godess, every year there is this ceremony where she "makes" rain for the coming season. There is a whole community supporting and living of this belief. hey don't care about the rainy season and weather paterns. She made the rain and their lifes will be full this year.

It is this faith that keeps them going, without it, they believe they will not survive.

That's an interesting comment. I recently visited the great Mayan-Toltec pyramid in Chichen-Itza, Mexico. It was built as a solar calendar. Depending on how the sun hit it, the Mayans could tell what time of year it was. This allowed people to live more sensibly, because they could plan for the future better. The human population was able to expand as a result. That pyramid became central to their religious ceremonies and was beneficial. Unfortunately, the religion also promoted brutal behaviors such as animal and human sacrifice, which weakened the society. Ultimately, Spanish conquistadors, driven by their own religious demons, became horrified at the practice of human sacrifice and took action to correct matters. They slaughtered many Mayans and destroyed as much of the historical and scientific records of the Mayans as they could. Religious faith can achieve good or evil.

I Enjoy your posts !!

Thanks!

 

[Copernicus]

Are you saying all insurance companies are religious?

Surely you have heard of "Acts of God". They don't pay those claims either.

Hence, we had better rely on our secular government rather than religion to save our collective necks when natural disasters happen.

 

[sonofskeptish]

There is suffering in the world because
we have sinned.
Are sins even crucified the Son Of God.

So god prefers to punish the great great grand children of the sinner, and those related to the sinner by species alone, as opposed to the sinner directly? Sounds like a bit of an @55h0|3!