• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why is hell eternal?

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Why do you believe hell is eternal and not temporary?

Who has seen hell? How do you know you're all not going there anyway?

Better yet, if you are living now how do you know life is one time deal?

These are questions that mainstream religions cannot actually answer because they dropped their mystical traditions a long time ago. They have their books, but have no ability to separate the true and false. If damnation isn't permanent and neither salvation then of course that leaves them in the untenable position of not being very relevant.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Exodus 21:6

6Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him FOREVER.

But did forever here mean time unending? No, it was until the servent died.
Yeah, like so many verses in the Bible, it all depends on which version one reads. Too bad the Bible plays so fast and loose with its wording.

for·ev·er
fəˈrevər/
adverb
adverb: forever; adverb: for ever
  1. for all future time; for always.

  2. continually.
Of course it gives the believer to ability to make what he will of it so as to fit his personal theology.

In any case, why do you think "forever" only means until the servant dies, and not for all future time; for always?
.
 
Last edited:

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Why do you believe hell is eternal and not temporary?

I don’t think we can say for certain that it is.

From a Baha’i perspective:

‘Abdu’l-Bahá has said that when human beings “become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment…is to be subjected to the world of nature; to be veiled from God; to be brutal and ignorant; to fall into carnal lusts; to be absorbed in animal frailties; to be characterized with dark qualities…these are the greatest punishments and tortures…“

Heaven and Hell | What Bahá’ís Believe
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
From the perspective of the Dharma, any hell realms are temporary. They only last as long as bad karma is being used up.

Hells/Narakas constitute a very complex subject though- including that not everyone gives any credibility to the concept.

Touching on the complexity of the subject, for example: the understanding is that something is reborn into a hell realm- technically different than you are now.

This also goes into why you should do your meritorious practices on behalf of all beings, and why karma matters. Because everything is connected like this from a Dharmic perspective.

I'll leave reincarnation alone because that's very paradoxical. It's very beyond the immediate scope of the individual experience.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, like so many verses in the Bible, it all depends on which version one reads. Too bad the Bible plays so fast and loose with its wording.

for·ev·er
fəˈrevər/
adverb
adverb: forever; adverb: for ever
  1. for all future time; for always.

  2. continually.
Of course it gives the believer to ability to make what he will of it so as to fit his personal theology.

In any case, why do you think "forever" only means until the servant dies, and not for all future time; for always?
.

I think it means until the servent died because some translations translate it like that. The one i qouted was from the king james. But heres one from the NIV

"Then he will be his servant for life." Exodus 21:6

So, the hebrew word must mean or allow it to mean just until he lives.

So, forever was used the same way people use forever today when tjings take too long or drag on. Like when time seams to go too slow. That happens when your not having fun.

And obviously being in hell would not be fun, hence it seam to drag on forever.
 
Who has seen hell? How do you know you're all not going there anyway?

Better yet, if you are living now how do you know life is one time deal?

These are questions that mainstream religions cannot actually answer because they dropped their mystical traditions a long time ago. They have their books, but have no ability to separate the true and false. If damnation isn't permanent and neither salvation then of course that leaves them in the untenable position of not being very relevant.
Who has seen hell? How do you know you're all not going there anyway?

Better yet, if you are living now how do you know life is one time deal?

These are questions that mainstream religions cannot actually answer because they dropped their mystical traditions a long time ago. They have their books, but have no ability to separate the true and false. If damnation isn't permanent and neither salvation then of course that leaves them in the untenable position of not being very relevant.

Some near death experiencers seen hell.

Why wouldnt it still be relavent if heaven and hell wer not permanent? I think it still be relavent because youd want to know how to get out of hell and remain in heaven, wouldnt we?
 
From the perspective of the Dharma, any hell realms are temporary. They only last as long as bad karma is being used up.

Hells/Narakas constitute a very complex subject though- including that not everyone gives any credibility to the concept.

Touching on the complexity of the subject, for example: the understanding is that something is reborn into a hell realm- technically different than you are now.

This also goes into why you should do your meritorious practices on behalf of all beings, and why karma matters. Because everything is connected like this from a Dharmic perspective.

I'll leave reincarnation alone because that's very paradoxical. It's very beyond the immediate scope of the individual experience.

In your view, what IS hell?
 
I don’t think we can say for certain that it is.

From a Baha’i perspective:

‘Abdu’l-Bahá has said that when human beings “become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment…is to be subjected to the world of nature; to be veiled from God; to be brutal and ignorant; to fall into carnal lusts; to be absorbed in animal frailties; to be characterized with dark qualities…these are the greatest punishments and tortures…“

Heaven and Hell | What Bahá’ís Believe

Break that meaning down little more for me.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Break that meaning down little more for me.

Our purpose is to know and worship God. In Christian terms that means both faith 'and' deeds.

Matthew 25:31-46

James 2:14-26

These are the criteria.

Ultimately our progress in the next word is determined by God and not by man.

Matthew 7:1-4
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I think it means until the servent died because some translations translate it like that. The one i qouted was from the king james. But heres one from the NIV
"Then he will be his servant for life." Exodus 21:6
So, the hebrew word must mean or allow it to mean just until he lives.

According to Strong's Concordance the Hebrew word is `owlam (וֹלָם ) which means

1. long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
A. ancient time, long time (of past)
B. (of future)
i. for ever, always
ii. continuous existence, perpetual
iii. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
Nothing relating to the length of one's life.

.
 
Last edited:

Skwim

Veteran Member
That depends upon who you ask. The Bible doesn't teach hell, so from the Bible's perspective there is no such thing as hell. The Bible teaches total destruction which is everlasting. It's death. No torment. You're just dead.

Matthew 5:22 (Jesus speaking)
22 But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 5:29-30 (Jesus speaking)
29 If your right eye makes you sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than to have your whole body thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand makes you sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matthew 10:28 (Jesus speaking)
28 “Don’t be afraid of people. They can kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. The only one you should fear is God, the one who can send the body and the soul to be destroyed in hell.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

Jude 1:23
Rescue those who are living in danger of hell’s fire. There are others you should treat with mercy, but be very careful that their filthy lives don’t rub off on you.​

.
 

Earthling

David Henson
Jesus taught about hell.

OK then, what did he teach about it, and in the Greek language in which his teachings were written what were the words used, what did those words mean, and what did the word hell mean in older Bibles where the word appears. Because these are the things you need to ask yourself when you want to know what Jesus really taught.

The answers, are, in the Greek language the words used are Gehenna and Hades. They mean, respectively, a literal valley S and SW of ancient Jerusalem, and the unseen resting place of the dead where there is no consciousness, so you wouldn't be aware of any torture. The word hell, as used in the Old English in 1611 when the KJV was written, means covered or concealed, as a grave or tomb, or burial at sea. For example, Jonah called the belly of the fish he was trapped in hell, the Hebrew word sheol which is translated into the Koine Greek, as Hades (Jonah 2:1-2). The grave. No torture. No Satan and demons. No consciousness. Later the word became used to describe the pagan idea of being tormented with demons forever, and other variations or ideas of hell.

Something to consider. The wages of sin are what? Everybody answers "death." Not everlasting torment in a fiery demon filled place underground. Romans 6:7 says when you die, you're acquitted of all sin. No more punishment required. Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul that sins, and all souls sin, will die, and so can't be tortured forever in hell. Jesus didn't sin and yet he went to hell. (Acts Of The Apostles 2:31) God is, in effect, in hell. (Amos 9:2 / Psalms 139:8)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Earthling

David Henson
Matthew 5:22 (Jesus speaking)
22 But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 5:29-30 (Jesus speaking)
29 If your right eye makes you sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than to have your whole body thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand makes you sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matthew 10:28 (Jesus speaking)
28 “Don’t be afraid of people. They can kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. The only one you should fear is God, the one who can send the body and the soul to be destroyed in hell.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

Jude 1:23
Rescue those who are living in danger of hell’s fire. There are others you should treat with mercy, but be very careful that their filthy lives don’t rub off on you.​

.

We've been through this before. What were the original words and what do they mean? What did the English word hell mean when older translations were written and why do many newer translations transliterate the original words?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
We've been through this before. What were the original words and what do they mean? What did the English word hell mean when older translations were written and why do many newer translations transliterate the original words?

I never cease to roll my eyes when people tell me "Greek translations" of biblical texts.
I have a Greek background.
But... lots of this stuff was never in Greek to start with. Jesus never spoke it as far as I
know.
Hell is eternal separation from God. For many I suppose it's better than the hell of the life
they live today, but Jesus said such people will see what they don't see now - what they
are missing.
God has given us a good look at hell with what happened to the Jews after Jesus. Just
been reading Josephus' accounts of the destruction of Israel. :(
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
In response to Jollybear, who said "Why do you believe hell is eternal and not temporary?" You said "It's not. Revelation 20:13-14." So the question at hand was whether hell is eternal or not. I then provided scriptures that said hell is eternal.

Yet you're resolving your contention that hell is not eternal with the scripture that simply says "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." No mention of hell not being eternal at all. And considering that the "lake of fire" is nothing more than a second death, a separation from god, it still doesn't say hell can't be eternal. In effect then, your Revelation 20:14 simply says that the eternal existence of death and hell consistis of a separation from god.

.
No way....your Scriptural quotes said "eternal fire", "eternal punishment ", and "eternal destruction". I didn't read 'hell' in any of them!
 

Earthling

David Henson
I never cease to roll my eyes when people tell me "Greek translations" of biblical texts.
I have a Greek background.

Oh, you do, huh? You have a Greek background? So what.

But... lots of this stuff was never in Greek to start with. Jesus never spoke it as far as I
know.

You should research your background some more than, because, he did, among other languages. In Jesus time Palestine was a multilingual region, he would have spoke Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin and Greek. Though predominately Aramaic, but that isn't relevant because the texts that were written were written in Greek Koine, because that was the primary language of the time, thus a wider audience.

Hell is eternal separation from God.

No it isn't. Amos 9:2 / Psalms 139:8
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Skwim

Veteran Member
No way....your Scriptural quotes said "eternal fire", "eternal punishment ", and "eternal destruction". I didn't read 'hell' in any of them!
Then I suggest you brush up on your reading skills.

Mark 9:43
“If your hand or your foot gets in God’s way, chop it off and throw it away. You’re better off maimed or lame and alive than the proud owner of two hands and two feet, godless in a furnace of eternal fire. And if your eye distracts you from God, pull it out and throw it away. You’re better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell.

.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
We've been through this before. What were the original words and what do they mean? What did the English word hell mean when older translations were written and why do many newer translations transliterate the original words?
This has nothing to do with "original words and what do they mean."

.
 
Top