Why is homosexuality wrong?

[The_Fisher_King]

It's when someone feels whole. It is just a fancy word that a describes how humans feel when they are in tune with life around them, others, and themselves both physically and mentally.

Okay, so, in your opinion, is homosexuality spiritually wrong? If so, why?

By no one and by nothing.

It is how our body is designed. Whether or not anyone wants to attribute this design or "creation" with a creator that's their view of the world.

You're asking me a trick question. I don't believe in a creator nor do I believe anything is created.

So, basically, I don't know where you going with the questions. Please add commentary. I hate guessing. It wastes time since I type fast and don't like talking about topics that's off point.

I'm not asking you a trick question, but I'll admit to being somewhat bemused by your frequent references to the 'created', 'designed' or 'made' nature of our bodies. These words all suggest that someone or something created, designed or made our bodies. You say that you don't believe in a creator or such, but you continue to use these words. Hence why I keep pushing you on this. Insofar as you believe that homosexuality is unnatural, the question of what our 'nature' constitutes and where it came from is directly related to the topic.

It takes me time to structure my thoughts and type them out. Sorry that I'm too slow for you!

 

[The_Fisher_King]

For those screaming the loudest against homosexuals, it seems that anal sex is the "end-all be-all" definition of homosexuality. It's as if lesbians don't even exist.

Indeed! Or the wide variety of other ways in which we express ourselves sexually, whatever our sex, sexual orientation or gender.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm.

Okay, so, in your opinion, is homosexuality spiritually wrong? If so, why?

No. I just feel there are specific actions between males the human body isn't designed to perform. Though, we do a lot of things that's outside of our nature... say eating food that has no nutritious value to our bodies or even Coca Cola that has enough chemicals that can clean the tires of a car, type of thing. Not wrong morally. Has nothing to do with ethics and the relationship between the two people involved. It's just the action regardless if they are straight (say man/woman), gay, bi, alien, whoever. I don't see how sexual orientation has anything to do with the action itself.

Spiritually is about the heart and mind. So, if one is committed to another and they consummate their love physically, it's a beautiful thing. Why does it have to be homosexuals that are pined, I don't know outside of religious reasons. We are all humans. We have the same hearts. No straight person is different than a gay person.

If I get married, I will say that my wife and I are married. We would consummate our love mentally, physically, and as a result spiritually; and, I do not feel that is wrong. I find it wrong when two people are intimate and it causes unhealthy relations say abuse. Other than that, no. It's not spiritually wrong. (That also depends on what your definition of spiritual is.)

I'm not asking you a trick question, but I'll admit to being somewhat bemused by your frequent references to the 'created', 'designed' or 'made' nature of our bodies. These words all suggest that someone or something created, designed or made our bodies.

I can't think of any other words. A mother can't literally create a baby, but sometimes we say "my mother created me from the womb" or things like "My mother made me who I am today". My mother created me type of thing.

It's an English thang. To put it bluntly, I don't believe anything is created. We change form, what we consider new (created) things come into being and we give it a name (like sperm and egg- "baby"). Nothing is created from thin air. So, maybe form is a better word.

Design doesn't need a creator either. I dropped marbles on the floor and it spontaneous made a design. Did it? No. There isn't a design to it unless I see it that way. It's my interpretation of how the marbles set themselves up when they dropped. Same as the universe. We are used to saying the universe has a design because we see a pattern. Then we see a comet interrupt that patter not thinking that these spontaneous events are part of the pattern as well. We can't define the patterns of the universe. That's like (to put it in a god-language) defining god.

You say that you don't believe in a creator or such, but you continue to use these words. Hence why I keep pushing you on this. Insofar as you believe that homosexuality is unnatural, the question of what our 'nature' constitutes and where it came from is directly related to the topic.

I believe male/male intercourse is unnatural. That has nothing to do with homosexuality.

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe male/male intercourse is unnatural.

Someone forgot to tell the bonobos.

 

[Sundance]

I'm not worried about what the Baha'i Faith has to say about homosexuality. We're having a debate about beliefs/opinions about homosexuality, and by extension what different religions have to say on the subject. The Baha'i Faith is one among several religions (including of course various forms of Islaam and Christianity) which has a particular (I would argue problematic) view on the subject. Why should that not be discussed on a religious forum?

Of course it bothers me that so many of my Muslim brothers and sisters have a problem with homosexuality. And I certainly do not shrink from challenging them on their beliefs/views either (though I have to be somewhat careful about how I go about this, and where). I don't see, however, how that calls into question my being a Muslim. There are many forms and interpretations of Islaam, not just those of the traditionalists or IS. Gay Muslims exist too! I have completely reconciled these two equally fundamental parts of my identity (my religion and my sexuality). But that doesn't mean I am not interested in continuing to debate the topic.

And I have, as well, reconciled my own religion's Teachings on this matter with my own feelings and they gel very nicely, dear Ya’quub, but unlike you, I have no desire whatsoever in continuing to debate with you or anyone else on this matter. I have neither the emotional energy, nor the sufficient level of patience. Another thing, I don't force anything my faith teaches on anyone. We're not allowed. So, with all of this in mind, I will excuse myself from this debate. I wish you well, dearest Ya’quub. Peace and blessings.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Hmm.

No. I just feel there are specific actions between males the human body isn't designed to perform. Though, we do a lot of things that's outside of our nature... say eating food that has no nutritious value to our bodies or even Coca Cola that has enough chemicals that can clean the tires of a car, type of thing. Not wrong morally. Has nothing to do with ethics and the relationship between the two people involved. It's just the action regardless if they are straight (say man/woman), gay, bi, alien, whoever. I don't see how sexual orientation has anything to do with the action itself.

Spiritually is about the heart and mind. So, if one is committed to another and they consummate their love physically, it's a beautiful thing. Why does it have to be homosexuals that are pined, I don't know outside of religious reasons. We are all humans. We have the same hearts. No straight person is different than a gay person.

If I get married, I will say that my wife and I are married. We would consummate our love mentally, physically, and as a result spiritually; and, I do not feel that is wrong. I find it wrong when two people are intimate and it causes unhealthy relations say abuse. Other than that, no. It's not spiritually wrong. (That also depends on what your definition of spiritual is.)



I can't think of any other words. A mother can't literally create a baby, but sometimes we say "my mother created me from the womb" or things like "My mother made me who I am today". My mother created me type of thing.

It's an English thang. To put it bluntly, I don't believe anything is created. We change form, what we consider new (created) things come into being and we give it a name (like sperm and egg- "baby"). Nothing is created from thin air. So, maybe form is a better word.

Design doesn't need a creator either. I dropped marbles on the floor and it spontaneous made a design. Did it? No. There isn't a design to it unless I see it that way. It's my interpretation of how the marbles set themselves up when they dropped. Same as the universe. We are used to saying the universe has a design because we see a pattern. Then we see a comet interrupt that patter not thinking that these spontaneous events are part of the pattern as well. We can't define the patterns of the universe. That's like (to put it in a god-language) defining god.



I believe male/male intercourse is unnatural. That has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Many thanks for taking the time to share and to further explain your views

 

[The_Fisher_King]

And I have, as well, reconciled my own religion's Teachings on this matter with my own feelings and they gel very nicely, dear Ya’quub, but unlike you, I have no desire whatsoever in continuing to debate with you or anyone else on this matter. I have neither the emotional energy, nor the sufficient level of patience. Another thing, I don't force anything my faith teaches on anyone. We're not allowed. So, with all of this in mind, I will excuse myself from this debate. I wish you well, dearest Ya’quub. Peace and blessings.

Fair enough. Peace and blessings be upon you too!

 

[Sonofason]

For those of you who believe that homosexuality is sinful/wrong, why do you believe so? What is sinful/wrong about it, and why?

Relatedly, some people, even those who do not have a problem with homosexuality (whether they identify as homosexual or not), do have something of a problem with bisexuality/pansexuality. If you do, why?

I appreciate that this is for many people an emotionally-charged topic. This is a debate forum, so all those participating in this thread or reading it should be prepared to be challenged and for a suitably robust exchange of views. But do please keep in mind that many of us identify as homosexual and it is a fundamental part of our identity. Some of us may also have been abused, persecuted and/or had some other kind of traumatic experience by virtue of our sexual orientation/sexuality. And by the same token, insofar as sexuality is central to many/most (all?) religions, and for many of us our religion is a fundamental part of our identity, please try to keep that in mind also. Many thanks.

I am pansexual.

Because, as you say, that many people on this forum identify as homosexual, and because some of you have been abused, persecuted and/or have had some other kind of traumatic experience by virtue of your sexual orientation/sexuality, I will have to abstain from giving my full opinion as to why homosexuality is sinful and wrong. Instead I will simply give you a list of what comes to mind when I consider homosexuality and homosexuals.

toilet, excrement, disease, death, perverse, disgusting, feces, viral hepatitis, unnatural, bad, evil, ill, wickedness, wrong, heinous, sinful, unscrupulous, vile, fiendish, corrupt, debase, giardiasis, degenerate, debauchery, depravity, depraved, amebiasis, indecency, lasciviousness, lechery, lewdness, cryptosporidiosis, perverse, perverted, wantonness, abomination, anathema, shigellosis, taboo, reprehensible, baseness, campylobacter enteritis, despicable, dirty, lowness, strongyloidiasis, wretchedness.


So please, keep it clean, keep it quiet, and for God's sake and mine, keep it to yourself. I don't want to know about it. When I find out that someone is homosexual, I remove myself from their presence. Really, I don't want to be anywhere near them. Thinking about what they do makes me want to puke.

There is a hope for such folk, but it's against the rules to preach here, so I won't go there either.

 

[Skwim]

Taking the Bible/God out of the equation completely changes everything In that world right and wrong is completely dependant on what we decide. And neither of our opinions is worth more than the next persons. Therefore, each human is free to do as he/she wishes.

Actually not. Almost everyone lives within a community, which, if nothing else, establishes rules and behaviors designed to maintain the stability of that community. If you're out in the wilderness by yourself by all means do as you please, but get together with just one other individual whom you wish to bond and you're obligated to compromise---recognizing their notion of right and wrong---lest they leave. So, the operation of community perforce demands rules of behavior. Establishing its rights and wrongs. Sometimes this is done democratically and sometimes autocratically. But even where a despot has an iron fist of rule there are always those minor rules of fair play on an individual level, which have been sorted out among the citizenry so as to get along with one another. So, although some people feel there's a need for the dictates of a supreme being to get along, there really isn't any. I believe such people may simply be too lazy to care to figure it out. "If god says X is wrong then it relieves me of the trouble of figuring out why on my own. I'll simply take his word for it. " Of course if such a supreme being sets out consequences that can only be achieved or avoided by following his rules, that's something altogether different. And, of course, not everyone cares to play such a game. This isn't to say that some law of god can't be just, hopefully most of them would be, but we judge them to be so because we recognize their inherent correctness apart from their rather odd source: the supernatural.



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[The_Fisher_King]

Because, as you say, that many people on this forum identify as homosexual, and because some of you have been abused, persecuted and/or have had some other kind of traumatic experience by virtue of your sexual orientation/sexuality, I will have to abstain from giving my full opinion as to why homosexuality is sinful and wrong. Instead I will simply give you a list of what comes to mind when I consider homosexuality and homosexuals.

toilet, excrement, disease, death, perverse, disgusting, feces, viral hepatitis, unnatural, bad, evil, ill, wickedness, wrong, heinous, sinful, unscrupulous, vile, fiendish, corrupt, debase, giardiasis, degenerate, debauchery, depravity, depraved, amebiasis, indecency, lasciviousness, lechery, lewdness, cryptosporidiosis, perverse, perverted, wantonness, abomination, anathema, shigellosis, taboo, reprehensible, baseness, campylobacter enteritis, despicable, dirty, lowness, strongyloidiasis, wretchedness.


So please, keep it clean, keep it quiet, and for God's sake and mine, keep it to yourself. I don't want to know about it. When I find out that someone is homosexual, I remove myself from their presence. Really, I don't want to be anywhere near them. Thinking about what they do makes me want to puke.

There is a hope for such folk, but it's against the rules to preach here, so I won't go there either.

I would have preferred an explanation of why you think homosexuality is sinful/wrong. It would also be helpful if you explained what you think homosexuality is.

 

[Sonofason]

Actually not. Almost everyone lives within a community, which, if nothing else, establishes rules and behaviors designed to maintain the stability of that community. If you're out in the wilderness by yourself by all means do as you please, but get together with just one other individual whom you wish to bond and you're obligated to compromise---recognizing their notion of right and wrong---lest they leave. So, the operation of community perforce demands rules of behavior. Establishing its rights and wrongs. Sometimes this is done democratically and sometimes autocratically. But even where a despot has an iron fist of rule there are always those minor rules of fair play on an individual level, which have been sorted out among the citizenry so as to get along with one another. So, although some people feel there's a need for the dictates of a supreme being to get along, there really isn't any. I believe such people may simply be too lazy to care to figure it out. "If god says X is wrong then it relieves me of the trouble of figuring out why on my own. I'll simply take his word for it. " Of course if such a supreme being sets out consequences that can only be achieved or avoided by following his rules, that's something altogether different. And, of course, not everyone cares to play such a game. This isn't to say that some law of god can't be just, hopefully most of them would be, but we judge them to be so because we recognize their inherent correctness apart from their rather odd source: the supernatural.



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If God had written that homosexuality is good, then I would know for a fact that there is no god.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If God had written that homosexuality is good, then I would know for a fact that there is no god.

So the 'badness' of homosexuality in your eyes is the yardstick by which you judge all things (including the existence or not of God)? Where do you derive this opinion of homosexuality from?

 

[Skwim]

So the 'badness' of homosexuality in your eyes is the yardstick by which you judge all things (including the existence or not of God)? Where do you derive this opinion of homosexuality from?

I'm guessing troublesome self doubt.


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[Sonofason]

I would have preferred an explanation of why you think homosexuality is sinful/wrong. It would also be helpful if you explained what you think homosexuality is.

I did tell you why I think it is sinful and wrong. Does not the word disgusting explain to you why I feel homosexuality is wrong? I gave you many other words to contemplate as well. Do I need to describe the actions of it, the smell of it, and the sight of it for you to understand? Do you really need me to use verbs, more adjectives and adverbs to understand why I think homosexuality is wrong? I even named some of the common diseases and illnesses associated with it. What more could you possibly need?

Simply put, homosexuality is sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.

Honestly, people having sexual desires directed toward person's of the same sex is sick enough, but acting on those desires is what my answer is focused on.
I would have been a firm believer in Leviticus 20:13. Cleanse the earth, save for Christ.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do I need to describe the actions of it, the smell of it, and the sight of it for you to understand?

I wonder how you know these things.

 

[Skwim]

If God had written that homosexuality is good, then I would know for a fact that there is no god.

You do realize don't you that one of the tell tale signs of closeted homosexuality is a professed, irrational denunciation of it? just saying.


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[Sonofason]

So the 'badness' of homosexuality in your eyes is the yardstick by which you judge all things (including the existence or not of God)? Where do you derive this opinion of homosexuality from?

Well, I might have the opinion I have simply by chance. In the words of Chris Harries, "the major driver of “what we intrinsically believe” comes simply from sheer chance - the place in which we happened to be born, the parents we inherited and the accidental influences that touched us in our critical, formative childhood years."

However, perhaps also by chance, I also believe that God sometimes intervenes in people's lives.

Could you imagine a good guy vs bad guy drama that didn't have any bad guys?
In such a drama, what exactly is the purpose of having a bad guy?

"Yet you, LORD, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand." (Isaiah 64:8)

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Romans 9:21)

The Potter and the Clay

"The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good. And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart." (Jeremiah 18:1-12)

 

[Sonofason]

You do realize don't you that one of the tell tale signs of closeted homosexuality is a professed, irrational denunciation of it? just saying.


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Sorry Skwim, you're not my type.

 

[Sonofason]

I wonder how you know these things.

And why do you wonder that?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because, as you say, that many people on this forum identify as homosexual, and because some of you have been abused, persecuted and/or have had some other kind of traumatic experience by virtue of your sexual orientation/sexuality, I will have to abstain from giving my full opinion as to why homosexuality is sinful and wrong. Instead I will simply give you a list of what comes to mind when I consider homosexuality and homosexuals.

toilet, excrement, disease, death, perverse, disgusting, feces, viral hepatitis, unnatural, bad, evil, ill, wickedness, wrong, heinous, sinful, unscrupulous, vile, fiendish, corrupt, debase, giardiasis, degenerate, debauchery, depravity, depraved, amebiasis, indecency, lasciviousness, lechery, lewdness, cryptosporidiosis, perverse, perverted, wantonness, abomination, anathema, shigellosis, taboo, reprehensible, baseness, campylobacter enteritis, despicable, dirty, lowness, strongyloidiasis, wretchedness.


So please, keep it clean, keep it quiet, and for God's sake and mine, keep it to yourself. I don't want to know about it. When I find out that someone is homosexual, I remove myself from their presence. Really, I don't want to be anywhere near them. Thinking about what they do makes me want to puke.

There is a hope for such folk, but it's against the rules to preach here, so I won't go there either.

Such hatred and you call yourself a Christian? A follower of Christ?