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Why is it ok for USA

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Do we really want anyone to be in charge of Nuclear weapons? I would say no, we should ban and dismantle all nuclear weapons also in America and the rest of the world too

In a way, I agree with you on this point. In fact, in my ideal world, all weapons would be banned entirely. If nations had a dispute, their top leaders would meet for a winner-take-all checkers tournament.

Unfortunately, humans don't trust each other - and that goes double for other human governments. We can be a very ruthless and predatory species, and because of this, we think everybody else is like that, too.

We don't want to appear weak before our adversaries, so we try to put forth this "tough" image and carry a big stick. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" is the philosophy which seems to give us our perspective on the world and how to carry out foreign policy. It's just that now, our "big stick" has a lot more firepower than it did in Teddy Roosevelt's time.

I've encountered a great many people in my life who have a certain warlike or militaristic attitude about US politics and foreign policy. They're generally ardent patriots, and while I don't find any fault in that on its face, their viewpoint is generally based upon the notion that most Americans are naive and gullible about the outside world. The idea is that most of us are protected, sheltered, and coddled in a certain idyllic, luxurious "bubble" full of good-hearted, compassionate, generous, wonderful people who need to be protected from all the evil and horrible bad things in the outside world coming to get us.

It doesn't really matter if it's true or not. A lot of people tend to think along these lines. If there are Americans of a more liberal bent who oppose US militarism, it's only because they're naive and simply don't have any conception or clue about just how dangerous and evil these other "enemy" countries are. They don't understand how they think or how they're cooking up all kinds of plots and conspiracies to destroy America and our way of life.

I'll admit that this kind of talk always did kind of bother me. I would tend to think that patriotism would entail love of country, but when it becomes tied to and required to also hate certain other countries, then patriotism becomes complicated and problematic.

So, to answer your original question about "Why is it okay for USA...?", the only rational and honest answer is that it's most definitely not okay.

But to many Americans, it doesn't matter, since many are persuaded to believe that we're on some holy crusade so that the forces of good can prevail over the forces of evil. They're involved in a much higher cause than any of these foolish, naive liberals and other peaceniks can possibly fathom or understand.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Is it? It is Trump who all the time now say threats toward Iran, As far as know from media, Iran has only defended their own country from USA spying on them. If i am correct that is something Iran is in title to, (of course, as long the drone was within their territory
Exactly correct.
Iran wants those weapons to defend itself from the USA. We've been attacking them for a long time, especially since they took their country back from our puppet Shah Pahlavi.
And we had a peace treaty, imperfect as it was. Trump got rid of it, which he promised to do during the campaign. So once again, the situation is deteriorating due to the USA.
Tom
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Why is it ok for USA to have nuclear weapons but they tell everyone else it is not ok?
Example with Iran, Why can USA keep their weapons but Iran can become nuked by USA if they do not get rid of their nuclear weapon? where is the logic?
The more nations that have nukes, the more likely the destruction of humanity.

The crazy religious leaders of Iran would have another thing to hold over the region that they are trying to dominate.

Some of them have said a nuclear war would bring in the time of their prophet, whatever that means.

The US should invade Iran if that is what it takes to stop the mullahs. Flatten their nuke sites, destroy their navy, topple their government then let the people sort it out.

If their new government is reasonable, sanctions would be lifted and aid given.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
No, it was never a t
Exactly correct.
Iran wants those weapons to defend itself from the USA. We've been attacking them for a long time, especially since they took their country back from our puppet Shah Pahlavi.
And we had a peace treaty, imperfect as it was. Trump got rid of it, which he promised to do during the campaign. So once again, the situation is deteriorating due to the USA.
Tom
No, it was never a treaty, all treatyś require approval of congress and obama knew it wouldn´t happen.

It was an understanding, with no standing, that is why Trump could rip it up.

The understanding granted Iran nuclear weapons in ten years, obama made sure he wouldn´t have to deal with a nuclear armed Iran

If the US was truly interested in invading Iran, it cpuld have happened anytime since 1979. It should have.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
You find overthrow of a democratically elected government funny?'
That has repercussions which we still face today, eg, the theocratic takeover.
And that was just the first item in the list.
Your having been there doesn't add justification for US attacks upon Iran.
Btw, were you there during the Iraq war?
Hundreds of thousands of people died.
What is your opinion of our fomenting & supporting that?
How do you think Iranians feel about it.
All the Americans in the m.e knew it was a major screw up..m and it was 70 years ago.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
The more nations that have nukes, the more likely the destruction of humanity.

The crazy religious leaders of Iran would have another thing to hold over the region that they are trying to dominate.

Some of them have said a nuclear war would bring in the time of their prophet, whatever that means.

The US should invade Iran if that is what it takes to stop the mullahs. Flatten their nuke sites, destroy their navy, topple their government then let the people sort it out.

If their new government is reasonable, sanctions would be lifted and aid given.
So if Trump goes crazy it is ok Russland attack? no, i do not think it is. And i do not think it is Americas right to attack Iran. or any other nation in middle east
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Somewhat on a side-note, at least in this thread about nuclear weapons, I wonder how the survivalist industry is doing these days. I kind of feel like I should be building a bomb shelter and stocking up on supplies.

There are a lot of people who do that. I heard about one group of families out in the sticks who have elaborate tunnels between their homes. They're stocked up and loaded for bear. Armageddon is just around the corner.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
No, it was never a treaty, all treatyś require approval of congress and obama knew it wouldn´t happen.
Because the modern Republicans are so warlike and partisan that they would do anything to win the next election, even if it involves another huge unwinnable war.
Especially when that war will stoke the coffers of their big donors. Obstructing Obama for attempting to help create a peaceful middle east was quite a bonus.

Tom
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
....and before America started playing 'world police,' Europe was taking such good care of itself, was it? Is there a single nation in Europe which does NOT have, in living memory, examples of war horror to tell? Bombed out cities? Stories of occupation and war crimes? Bullet casings in vineyards, old mine fields? If Middle Eastern nations would just invade each other and leave US alone...but you don't. You never have.

We aren't playing 'world police.' We are playing 'let's see if we can't keep you people from getting weird with US again."

Oh, and we rather like most of the nations in Europe, anyway, and don't want to see them get clobbered again, either. So we act because at the moment, we have the power to do something about things like terrorism and possible war between nations. We may not do the right thing all the time, but I'm of the opinion that the folks with the power to prevent such things SHOULD do their best to prevent such things. "With great power comes great responsibility,' and all that. (Uncle Ben in Spider man) or "The price of greatness is responsibility" (Winston Churchill)

So if you think that Europe can take care of itself...then for crying out loud, TAKE CARE OF IT YOURSELF. Actually, I think Europe DOES 'take care of it" rather well. The same thing can't be said of the middle east, though. At least, it doesn't look like it is doing so very well.
I guess it's just going to take another person possessing the power Hitler had in World War II to jog people's memories .

And the frightening part is....

He almost won.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Tell that to ISIS in person
If i meet one of them and he start a discussion i dont see why i could not say that to him. Not sure he would listen in the beginning. But even ISIS is a evil group there are people within them that we can talk to.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Actually i am totally against any weapon, as a pacifist. But i do not support the way America is doing the war seeking missions in the middle east. And No i do not support the evil things Iran do when they do evil things. But the OP was meant as a question toward why America seem to play world police when they are not.
That’s really, really nice, but also unrealistic since human beings seem incapable of living in peace with one another. At least not when resources are limited. The struggle for dominance and survival is in our DNA as borne out in millions of years of evolution.

You’ve tacitly accepted this conclusion by advocating that Iran have nukes too. So what’s the problem with everyone having nukes?
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Because the modern Republicans are so warlike and partisan that they would do anything to win the next election, even if it involves another huge unwinnable war.
Especially when that war will stoke the coffers of their big donors. Obstructing Obama for attempting to help create a peaceful middle east was quite a bonus.

Tom
Yeah, yeah same old BS I have heard for 50 years. A democrat put us into WW1, WW2, Korea, VN So there is plenty of blame to go around.

Republicans aren´t ¨ warlike ¨, they are actually concerned with the defense of the nation and the defense of our allies.

Obama really created a peaceful middle east. In unseating Khadafi, he started a civil war. In announcing pullout dates he ensured that our enemies would wait us out, by pulling troops too soon he rekindled civil wars. His strategic do nothing foreign policy was a joke, the Russians invaded and kept territory while giving him the finger. His big plastic reset button didn´t work and neither did the policy.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
So if Trump goes crazy it is ok Russland attack? no, i do not think it is. And i do not think it is Americas right to attack Iran. or any other nation in middle east
Your opinion is duly noted. Trump hasn´t gone crazy, and the mullahs are all crazy.

They are pushing, and pushing, if THEY go to far, I hope they, their navy, and their republican guard are obliterated.

They have been lucky, so far, their luck will run out.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Overthrowing the Mossadeeg.. The Iran-Iraq war went on for years.. and Bush's invasion in 2003 was an egregious blunder.
I notice that you didn't mention the USA in the Iraq/Iran debacle.
That war went on for years because the USA kept supporting the violence. Including supplies of illegal chemical weapons.

Yeah, the Iranians have very good reasons for referring to us as Great Satan.
Tom
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Yeah, yeah same old BS I have heard for 50 years. A democrat put us into WW1, WW2, Korea, VN So there is plenty of blame to go around.

Republicans aren´t ¨ warlike ¨, they are actually concerned with the defense of the nation and the defense of our allies.

Obama really created a peaceful middle east. In unseating Khadafi, he started a civil war. In announcing pullout dates he ensured that our enemies would wait us out, by pulling troops too soon he rekindled civil wars. His strategic do nothing foreign policy was a joke, the Russians invaded and kept territory while giving him the finger. His big plastic reset button didn´t work and neither did the policy.

Obama didn't "unseat" Khadafi.. By the time NATO got involved all the embassies had pulled out.. 7 oil companies had pulled out and refugees were pouring into Italy.

Don't try to reinvent Khadafi.. He was always a bad actor.. and dumb as a damned post since 1969.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I notice that you didn't mention the USA in the Iraq/Iran debacle.
That war went on for years because the USA kept supporting the violence. Including supplies of illegal chemical weapons.

Yeah, the Iranians have very good reasons for referring to us as Great Satan.
Tom

For God's sake.. don't you know anything about the ME. We didn't start the Iran-Iraq war. Do you remember the Dual Containment Policy?
 
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