"Why Is It That Atheists Don't Believe In God?"

[Shantanu]

In my humble opinion yes, from the counsels and teachings God reveals to us through His Manifestations Who appear in each age.

How can you trust what anyone else says? - they may have ulterior motives in their proclamations.

 

[Salvador]

The Genetic Code is not a synonym for the Bible Code

Hi, I'm one of the authors of the papers being discussed here (thanks for pointing out this discussion, Simone). Saying right off: I am not going to make war and press on changing anything in the wiki-article. I'll appreciate if the wiki-editors here will take my note into account; but if not - well, I can live with that, From the discussion here I see that the point is not whether our papers are ID or not (they are not; if that matters - I share entirely naturalistic worldview). Rather, the point is whether they are numerology or not. As I guess, this is a short way of saying that the data we described might be just the result of our arbitrary "juggling" until we found some "desired patterns". In our recent paper (mentioned here by the user Andy Shepp) we devote a good chunk of text to discussing this very point, so here I'll instead make a comparison between our study and the Bible Code (the comparison brought about by PZ Myers, I suppose). First - there is no any scientific hypothesis behind the Bible code (at least none that I've heard of. God? That's not a hypothesis, since the notion of God is notoriously ill-defined. Without such restriction, you are free to choose/invent any method you like for data analysis. In our case, we have the working hypothesis (that of Sagan and Crick & Orgel), and we attempt to develop analysis methodology appropriate for that hypothesis - the condition which greatly restricts the options (in particular, we are trying to follow similar basic logic that was used to construct Earth-made messages such as the Arecibo message, etc.). Second - the analogy with the Bible code is irrelevant simply from statistical standpoint. In one case the data (Bible) is millions of letters long - what a scope for opportunities. In another case, the data (genetic code) is only a few hundred bits. Next, the Bible is but one of many books ever written, while the genetic code is unique (with several minor variations). The Bible is written with a writing system which is itself completely arbitrary and is but one of many existing writing systems; in contrast, in our approach we do not rely in any way on arbitrary cultural codes, relying instead on the language of abstract logic and mathematics (yes, I know not everyone agrees that even mathematics might be useful for communication with another intelligent species; still, if you attempt to do that, first of all you'll most probalby resort to logic/mathematics, not Hebrew, right?). ----------- Of course, I by no means imply that our data unambiguously supports the hypothesis of Crick & Orgel. My point is that the data favors this hypothesis to the extent which makes it unreasonable to dismiss it as numerology just like the Bible code. As typically happens in such situations, the problem is that it is difficult to find an objective criterion for judging opinions and biases." - Maxim Makukov

Reference: Wikipedia Talk Panspermia Talk:Panspermia - Wikipedia[/PLAIN[/URL]

 

[ArtieE]

However what I found is not the topic of this thread so all I’ll say is that atheism in my case was a path enabling me to find the truth.

We should take all religious people from all kinds of religions and sects, assemble them all on one continent and tell them to contact us when they have managed to agree on what "the truth" is.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think there are two causes for both atheism, and theism. The first is experience. We are the sum total of our experiences. So if we've had an experience that to us, resonated of God, then we're theist. If we've never had such an experience, then why would we believe in God.

The other factor is what we've been told, mainly by parents. We've been told it over and over and over so many times that it's so ingrained we really know of no other way out.

But the idea that the other side just hasn't thought about it enough of they'd come around is just foolish folly, and displays a profound inability to see the bigger picture, which just results in pointless circular argument.

 

[Shantanu]

We should take all religious people from all kinds of religions and sects, assemble them all on one continent and tell them to contact us when they have managed to agree on what "the truth" is.

I know what the truth is now: that is why I came out the Hinduism DIR to spread the gospel today.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How can you trust what anyone else says? - they may have ulterior motives in their proclamations.

Very good question. This is something we each need to look into ourselves and be very thorough in our investigation but careful to neither blindly accept nor blindly reject.

If we assume every teacher has an ulterior motive then when a true one comes along we shall condemn him also.

So if we are to find truth we need to be both vigilant of any teacher proclaiming a new message but equally vigilent of ourselves and any willful blindness we might place in front of ourselves that may prevent us from being open to receive the truth from the TruthGiver.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We should take all religious people from all kinds of religions and sects, assemble them all on one continent and tell them to contact us when they have managed to agree on what "the truth" is.

It would be wonderful the day we can do that.

 

[Shantanu]

Very good question. This is something we each need to look into ourselves and be very thorough in our investigation but careful to neither blindly accept nor blindly reject.

If we assume every teacher has an ulterior motive then when a true one comes along we shall condemn him also.

So if we are to find truth we need to be both vigilant of any teacher proclaiming a new message but equally vigilent of ourselves and any willful blindness we might place in front of ourselves that may prevent us from being open to receive the truth from the TruthGiver.

Has there ever lived a person who had all the answers to all the questions that arise in humanity to be the giver of Truths?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Has there ever lived a person who had all the answers to all the questions that arise in humanity to be the giver of Truths?

Again that’s something we each have to investigate for ourselves as we are all born with the innate ability to recognize truth. Our soul or spirit has that ability.

My attachment to my own opinions and views was the largest obstacle to discovering truth because in order to find truth an open and receptive mind is required but while my mind was full of self then there was no room in it for truth.

I was my one worst enemy all along and I never suspected it for one second.

 

[Shantanu]

Again that’s something we each have to investigate for ourselves as we are all born with the innate ability to recognize truth. Our soul or spirit has that ability.

My attachment to my own opinions and views was the largest obstacle to discovering truth because in order to find truth an open and receptive mind is required but while my mind was full of self then there was no room in it for truth.

I was my one worst enemy all along and I never suspected it for one second.

Perhaps you are born with the innate ability to recognize truth. I was not born with that innate ability to recognise truth: I acquired this ability by contacting God through the HIndu methog of yoga of satya-advaita or truth accommodation until this religion made me become God and then I did not need to contact Him again. I had become the Ultimate TruthGiver.

 

[PureX]

Atheism is based on the very irrational assumption that "if it exists, I (the atheist) would be able to know it", and "you (the theist) would be able to prove it to me". And since neither of these absurd criteria has been met, the atheist then assumes non-existence by default (and then lies about having done so by pretending to be merely 'undecided').

 

[ArtieE]

Atheism is based on the very irrational assumption that "if it exists, I (the atheist) would be able to know it", and "you (the theist) would be able to prove it to me". And since neither of these absurd criteria has been met, the atheist then assumes non-existence by default (and then lies about having done so by pretending to be merely 'undecided').

What's theism based on?

 

[PureX]

What's theism based on?

Theism is based on the hope that a benevolent God exists, and the positive results that come from acting on that hope (whether such a God exists or not).

 

[ArtieE]

Theism is based on the hope that a benevolent God exists, and the positive results that come from acting on that hope (whether such a God exists or not).

What about those theists who believe in gods who are far from benevolent?

 

[LuisDantas]

I think atheists don’t believe in God for many different reasons so there’s no one fits all reason as everyone’s different. I can only speak for myself as I was once an ardent atheist but as I looked into the topic more closely I discovered I was wrong.

I guess that happens, but I don't think that is very common at all among us atheists. The telltale sign is your qualifier "ardent". Atheism is quite unremarkable.

Just as I discovered something else I think now that atheism is a stage of search and independent investigation people go through in order to test every idea and concept rather than believe blindly which is good because we should think for ourselves and not just believe something someone says without good reason.

Again, that happens. But is very much the exception.

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheism is based on the very irrational assumption that "if it exists, I (the atheist) would be able to know it", and "you (the theist) would be able to prove it to me". And since neither of these absurd criteria has been met, the atheist then assumes non-existence by default (and then lies about having done so by pretending to be merely 'undecided').

I take it that you never actually met an atheist, then.

 

[ArtieE]

the atheist then assumes non-existence by default

So Christians don't believe in the existence of all gods except one, atheists don't believe in the existence of all gods, and somehow Christians try to tell atheists that not believing in the existence of gods is wrong?

 

[Trailblazer]

And as a fully committed atheist, this is what you know?

I only know what atheists post to me or what I see them post. This is what I have seen.

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Why?

As you say, lack of evidence.

Improving methods of education over recent years, training people to actually, question, think and analyse rather than simply accepting what they were told to think.

The internet gives easy access to information that people are now more capable of analysing than ever.

But you are not going to find evidence of God on the internet unless you are looking at different religions.

Daily life knocks god belief out of many people, the unnecessary deaths and suffering that is prevalent in the world. Yes it always has been but the internet (see above) brings it to the attention of anyone with a cell phone.

Yes, the internet and cell phones and television bring deaths and suffering to our attention. However, they do not usually report the good things that happen all over the world, only the bad things. Nevertheless, I understand your sentiments and I share them. Why did God create a world in which humans and animals would suffer, some so much more than others? There are some answers to these questions, but much of the time these answers are not satisfactory for me. However, the existence of suffering is not a good enough reason for me to relinquish my belief that God exists but it certainly tests it, especially because I am experiencing suffering most of the time. I still believe God exists, although loving a God that made a world like this is another matter.

Then comes the bible. I must say that the bible did play a small part in moulding my view after leaving the church i loved, but not as a reason i left. I used it as a reference work in an attempt to discover why many christians were so nasty and found the answers right there in the OT. Interestingly i had never noticed the hatred and bigotry the bible can teach to those susceptible to such teaching before i left the church.

Fortunately for me, I was not raised as a Christian and I never even read any of the Bible until I came to forums six years ago, and I still have not read much of it. The Bible remains an enigma to me. I believe it contains many spiritual truths, but I think much of it is stories that never took place. As such, I do not necessarily believe what the OT attributes to God and His actions. I just do not know. God is also an enigma to me.

 

[PureX]

So Christians don't believe in the existence of all gods except one, atheists don't believe in the existence of all gods, and somehow Christians try to tell atheists that not believing in the existence of gods is wrong?

I don't see what this specific beef with some Christians has to do with atheists being atheists. Are you trying to claim that the irrationality of the one somehow rationalizes the irrationality of the other?

 

[ChristineM]

But you are not going to find evidence of God on the internet unless you are looking at different religions.

Ahh right, you were writing with so much enthusiasm i though perhaps you had personal knowledge.

Yes, the internet and cell phones and television bring deaths and suffering to our attention. However, they do not usually report the good things that happen all over the world, only the bad things. Nevertheless, I understand your sentiments and I share them. Why did God create a world in which humans and animals would suffer, some so much more than others? There are some answers to these questions, but much of the time these answers are not satisfactory for me. However, the existence of suffering is not a good enough reason for me to relinquish my belief that God exists but it certainly tests it, especially because I am experiencing suffering most of the time. I still believe God exists, although loving a God that made a world like this is another matter.

Entirely up to you. I see the evidence of unnecessary suffering as evidence no compassionate god exists.

Fortunately for me, I was not raised as a Christian and I never even read any of the Bible until I came to forums six years ago, and I still have not read much of it. The Bible remains an enigma to me. I believe it contains many spiritual truths, but I think much of it is stories that never took place. As such, I do not necessarily believe what the OT attributes to God and His actions. I just do not know. God is also an enigma to me.

Ok