Why is Necromancy forbidden according to your tradition?

[beenherebeforeagain]

Dividing up reality in just such a way allows certain groups of people to assert that they are in charge, and use that as a basis to install and maintain a social hierarchy, exploit natural systems as if they inert and without any rights or needs of their own...which allows the development of wealth and further power...

If nature--any part of nature--has any rights, the system begins to break down...

 

[Mindmaster]

Good answer...but why?

Probably the whole "Witch of Endor" thing, what need do you have of a priest when you can just tap a few of the local spooks for some answers.

Ultimately, these things, and the knowledge of them will leave you in a state questioning nearly every word of what the Bible says on such matters. That's really not good for the churches, eh, hype?

@beenherebeforeagain Far be it from me to damage anyone's drastically faulty understanding of the "spiritual world", or even convince them there is one. It's about as futile as attempting to describe color to a man that has been blind all of their lives. People are free to believe what they want, others have a direct experience of such things and not so much an opinion of them and I'd leave it at that.

 

[Mindmaster]

Dividing up reality in just such a way allows certain groups of people to assert that they are in charge, and use that as a basis to install and maintain a social hierarchy, exploit natural systems as if they inert and without any rights or needs of their own...which allows the development of wealth and further power...

If nature--any part of nature--has any rights, the system begins to break down...

It's all arbitrary ideological ramblings until you succeed to establish contact, so to speak. Everything is equally valid without a context to apply them to.

Anyway, to me it doesn't matter what churches or mainstream religions say of the matter since I have my own ability to have such experiences. It's not some magic power, I think anyone can do it if they can get past their own fears and pay attention. Fear pretty much undoes the whole thing, however.

Again, I don't preach about it I just think these experiences are obtainable if you seek them and it is far more important to have your own experiences and make up your own mind, versus taking anyone else's word.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

@beenherebeforeagain Far be it from me to damage anyone's drastically faulty understanding of the "spiritual world", or even convince them there is one. It's about as futile as attempting to describe color to a man that has been blind all of their lives. People are free to believe what they want, others have a direct experience of such things and not so much an opinion of them and I'd leave it at that.

Thank you for acknowledging that I actually have direct experience of such things, and therefore know what I'm talking about, and therefore am not expressing an opinion about them.

You, of course, have direct knowledge of what you're experienced, and therefore know what you are talking about. It is that's you and this is me.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

It's all arbitrary ideological ramblings until you succeed to establish contact, so to speak. Everything is equally valid without a context to apply them to.

Anyway, to me it doesn't matter what churches or mainstream religions say of the matter since I have my own ability to have such experiences. It's not some magic power, I think anyone can do it if they can get past their own fears and pay attention. Fear pretty much undoes the whole thing, however.

Again, I don't preach about it I just think these experiences are obtainable if you seek them and it is far more important to have your own experiences and make up your own mind, versus taking anyone else's word.

Can't disagree with anything you've said here...except that it appears that your experiences and my experiences are completely different...which leads you to dismiss/discount my experiences, and the making up of my own mind.

Or then, maybe I could just parrot Anton and some others...

 

[Spiderman]

It's all arbitrary ideological ramblings until you succeed to establish contact, so to speak. Everything is equally valid without a context to apply them to.

Anyway, to me it doesn't matter what churches or mainstream religions say of the matter since I have my own ability to have such experiences. It's not some magic power, I think anyone can do it if they can get past their own fears and pay attention. Fear pretty much undoes the whole thing, however.

Again, I don't preach about it I just think these experiences are obtainable if you seek them and it is far more important to have your own experiences and make up your own mind, versus taking anyone else's word.

All I can say is I envy your ability

 

[Callisto]

Then I am clearly a Heathen

Ancestor veneration/honoring the dead was and is common among a variety of cultural religions. E.g., the hero cults of the ancient Greeks developed from ancestor veneration.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Contacting the dead is a big part of my spiritual practices. I've spent all night in cemeteries and it was euphoric...I can't wait till it warms up and can do it again.

I'm saddened to see that this practice is condemned by so many Theists. Why is it forbidden?

It is not a question of being forbidden, such a practice is inadvisable and could be dangerous.

For one thing the dead are on their way upwards to a better and restful place, and you are dragging them back to the chaotic,uncomfortable earthly level by trying to contact them - so you are doing them no favor.

Secondly you can never be sure who you are contacting. There are many evil/mischievous entities on the astral planes who may answer your call pretending to be the person you are trying to contact. They are good imitators and they know what you are looking for. These entities can lead to astray and perhaps cause you harm. It is best to let the dead rest in peace - it serves no purpose to try to contact them.

As Ramakrishna is supposed to have once said - 'If you want to become a God, try to contact God. if you want to become a ghost, try to contact ghosts." .

 

[Callisto]

Hehe! At best, "the Veil" is the fact that Westerners put up a barrier in their mind to shut the spirit worlds out...you're right, it's not like they are somewhere else in relation to our 3D/4D cosmos...

It's not used in the sense of a barrier (how much can an actual veil actually deter or contain?) but as being liminal.

 

[lovesong]

When you say magic, and are obviously talking about spells, what exactly is it that you do? I ask in earnest because I am trying to be open minded and learn something new. My position against magic and the supernatural is well known, but I also try and remain objective. Maybe there is something out there that I just haven't seen yet.

I know you are not talking about going all Dungeons & Dragons and throwing fireballs around, or summoning a Meteor Swarm to crush your enemies. So what spells do modern day practitioners actually cast, and how do they know if they work?

Magic is just the manipulation of energy to create change, to simplify all the theories into a quick explanation. All natural things have a unique energy (I don't like using this word because of the new age connotations, but I've yet to find another term), I like to call it a color for the sake of metaphor. If, say, we want to create a change in the world that is blue, we would gather things that contain blue, pull the blue from them, and send that blue out into the ocean of colors in hopes of making change where we want it. Another metaphor for this could be splashing in the water to change its direction. Actually carrying out the processes required to gather and send the energies properly and effectively is relatively difficult and requires a bit of study and practice, just like any art. It's a skill we develop as we go. Some people use the aid of gods or other higher beings to essentially do the work for them or as a type of insurance to ensure everything goes as planned, some people prefer to work their way up alone, and some fall somewhere in the middle. That seems to be a good basic summary of what magic actually is and does, I hope the metaphors make sense.

If I was to invoke one of your death Gods, which do you think has the most authority?

None are particularly more powerful than the others when it comes to their control over death. Each of the gods aids or deals with the dead, the dying, and death itself in a different way. Who has the most power to help you would really be determined by what you were looking for.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

It's not used in the sense of a barrier (how much can an actual veil actually deter or contain?) but as being liminal.

I dunno, how much can a threshold deter or contain?

Most of the people I've known and discussed this matter with (admittedly, not a representative sample) seem to think of the veil as a barrier of some sort, although most seem to think of it in terms of perhaps a curtain or something that obscures, or perhaps a great distance.

And as I recall, original ghost hunters like Hans Holzer discussed this in a number of different manners, seems like maybe if the term threshold came up, it was like a threshold to the other side--still the implication of it being somewhere else. It's been many years since I read any of this literature, though...

Certainly, those are the images that I've most often noticed when it comes up in fiction...admittedly, though, I haven't ever made a deep study of this particular aspect...

 

[Neo Deist]

All natural things have a unique energy...

This I agree with. As a martial artist, we refer to it as chi. No, we do not use chi to throw people around without touching them.

...I hope the metaphors make sense.

In my mind, not really. But I have held magic to be hocus pocus nonsense for so long, that I'm probably not seeing what you are getting at. I will look into it more.

 

[pearl]

Necromancy has to do with evoking spirits, for the acquiring of hidden information, spiritualism, and is condemned in the OT.
The evocation of the spirit of Samuel on the part of King Saul, "Saul died because he committed evil in as much as he transgressed the divine mandate, failing to observe it, and what is more, consulted ghosts and not the Lord for guidance. And the Lord killed him and transferred his kingdom to David, the son of Jesse" (1 Chron)

 

[arthra]

For starters I don't think we need to "spend all night in cemeteries" to be close to those who have ascended to the spiritual worlds... After they've ascended they are no longer associated with the bodies they had on this physical plane.

I do however respect the graves and memorials of those who have passed on and we should I believe occasionally visit them and leave tokens of our love for those who have departed. Some day we will join them.

Your "spiritual practices" are your own business.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Contacting the dead is a big part of my spiritual practices. I've spent all night in cemeteries and it was euphoric...I can't wait till it warms up and can do it again.

I'm saddened to see that this practice is condemned by so many Theists. Why is it forbidden?

Had to think about this. Why do we say "we pray to the dead"? Unless, you are praying to people who are actually deceased-mind, body, and spirit-a lot of our religions are say "we pray to the living." Spirit or body doesn't change life evolves, changes, and continues. We'd like to think "this is the end" gives us a backward solace of not suffering anymore. Others like to think "we will live forever" gives a solace of being in a better place then the temporary one they say we have now.

Why can't life, be life? We transition in stages of life and physical death is no different. We're praying to the living. At least, that's my faith.

What I believe doesn't line with necromancy, because it doesn't exist.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

We speak of the dead so because death is a mortal transition. It does not mean "does not exist anymore," but that what has died is no longer mortal. Communing with the dead is thus speaking with those who have passed from this world into the spirit world.

 

[pearl]

Necromancy is the accusation that some Protestants throw at Catholics because of their praying to saints. The Church denies this claiming prayer to the saints for guidance in ones life, the 'invocation' of the saints, is an act whereby the believer in Christ commits himself with confidence to their charity.
Since God is the source of all love (cf. Rom 5:5), any invocation of the saints is an acknowledgement of God as the ultimate foundation of the charity of the saints, and tends in the last analysis towards Him.

 

[rusra02]

The Bible condemns the practice of talking with the dead. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) Since the Bible says the dead are unconscious and unable to do anything, I believe one is really contacting wicked spirits. And God does not want us " to become sharers with the demons." (1 Corinthians 10:20, Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

 

[viole]

Contacting the dead is a big part of my spiritual practices. I've spent all night in cemeteries and it was euphoric...I can't wait till it warms up and can do it again.

I'm saddened to see that this practice is condemned by so many Theists. Why is it forbidden?

Necromancy, black magic, astrology, etc. are usually forbidden by traditional religions because they are considered peer competitors fighting for the same market.

Ciao

- viole

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

.
LOL!

It's also condemned by many RFers. But I haven't seen you do it lately!

Necromancy, even demonology isn't so much condemned by the Christian religion, Judaism etc so as much is it's regulated as who can perform or study it. King Solomon of the old testament was said to have built his temple with the aid of captive demons who he conjured and held under his command. I believe that demonology and witchcraft is like kids playing with TNT and only those trained in areas of opening door to the realm of the dead to mortals are allowed to do so. Lastly so called black magic is seen as being on the side of the enemy and again its not wise for Christians to even think about practicing it.