Why is Obama labeled "black?"

[DallasApple]

I guess my LONG point is I have to agree with Lillith.

In a "weird" way..BECAUSE I was white growing up in the south..I had to be "taught" that "we love" black people too.I had to be "taught" not to be a racist.At the same time I was "segregated" from black people.We went to "school" together in Florida..But "they" werent my "neighbors".

Love

Dallas

 

[lilithu]

Im sorry I didnt mean to offend..

If you want to discuss further where is the best medium for that?

If you meant discussion with me in particular then you can e-mail me if you want.I'll PM you with it..

Love

Dallas

Oh, I wasn't offended Dallas. I'm sorry to have given you that impression. I'm just thinking that this topic is too difficult to discuss in an online forum. It had nothing to do with you personally.

Anyway, I am in danger of wasting another day here as opposed to house chores and gardening.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No matter how destitute, poor whites were led to believe that they were still better than blacks. The concept of race was used in order to divide members of the poorer classes against each other and keep them from uniting against the upper classes.

Nope. In Southern culture the concept of white trash was the absolute worst. Blacks were considered several rungs up the social ladder from white trash. Now its true that this is because it was felt that a white person should be held to a higher standard and therefore when they don't live up to it they are considered the lowest of the low. But it doesn't change the fact that a Black farmer or business owner was looked on much more highly than poor whites.

 

[ChristineES]

All that stuff is past, and hopefully we have moved beyond such treatment and work will be done so that everyone feels as though they are equal to everyone else. It is good to remember those things such as slavery, so that it never happens again, but it does no one any good to say "in the past, my ancestors were treated __________".

 

[lilithu]

And do you feel this equates to whites being the privileged race of the United States? How about the Catholics who were persecuted? Were they privileged too or should they be considered people of color? What about the Cajun children who were beaten for speaking French in school, were they privileged?

For the love of humanity, the Catholics and the Cajuns were not considered "white"! That's the point!!




I'm going gardening.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I guess my LONG point is I have to agree with Lillith.

In a "weird" way..BECAUSE I was white growing up in the south..I had to be "taught" that "we love" black people too.I had to be "taught" not to be a racist.At the same time I was "segregated" from black people.We went to "school" together in Florida..But "they" werent my "neighbors".

Love

Dallas

I also grew up in the South and had a completely different experience. I was surrounded by Black people all the time. My grandfather employeed a lot of them and they were always coming to the house because he ran his business out of it. Also, several were personal friends of the family. My schools were generally half Black and while there was some tension, the kids still played together. And I'm talking about the 70s and early 80s here. I wasn't taught to love Black people, I wasn't told how to treat them. I was shown. The Black people who I came in contact with were treated the same as everyone else I came contact with.

 

[DallasApple]

Nope. In Southern culture the concept of white trash was the absolute worst. Blacks were considered several rungs up the social ladder from white trash.

Thats true too.

"White trash"..is equvelant to the N word.

Even though I cant say the N word lest Im singing a good rap song..LOL!!!

Love

Dallas

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

For the love of humanity, the Catholics and the Cajuns were not considered "white"! That's the point!!

Then why do you continually consider them part of white privilege? You are the one who says its Black or White and White is bad.

 

[lilithu]

All that stuff is past, and hopefully we have moved beyond such treatment and work will be done so that everyone feels as though they are equal to everyone else.

No, it isn't, and no, we haven't.

There may be no more public lynchings but our criminal system still executes far more blacks than anyone else.

There may be no more Tuskegee experiments, but African American health care life-expectancy is far lower than that of whites.

 

[DallasApple]

I also grew up in the South and had a completely different experience. I was surrounded by Black people all the time. My grandfather employeed a lot of them and they were always coming to the house because he ran his business out of it. Also, several were personal friends of the family. My schools were generally half Black and while there was some tension, the kids still played together. And I'm talking about the 70s and early 80s here. I wasn't taught to love Black people, I wasn't told how to treat them. I was shown. The Black people who I came in contact with were treated the same as everyone else I came contact with.

Thats true for me too..in many ways..Except my only exposure to black people was durign the school day..There was no "socializing".

My mother just made it a "point" to exlaim "verbally" to us that she "loved" black people..

And I was born in B-Ham Al...In 1968..and lived in Florida for much of the 70's.My mother was born in B-Ham Al.(in 1944)..and left when she was 30..

We were "around" racist people..My mother made it a point to "teach" us they were wrong.

We just had no "black" friends....we were "segregated"..

Love

Dallas

 

[lilithu]

Then why do you continually consider them part of white privilege? You are the one who says its Black or White and White is bad.

:areyoucra What I have consistently said is that the category of "white" denoted who had access to certain privileges and who didn't. Catholics, and by that I mean mainly Irish and Italians, were not originally considered "white" in this country. In fact, there were store signs that said things like "No dogs or Irish allowed." And there were derogatory slurs for Italians like WOP and dago. But over time, the category of "white" has been expanded to include more than just anglo saxon protestants. They have white privilege now. They did not before. Which is further evidence that "white" is nothing more than a social construct.

 

[lilithu]

Nope. In Southern culture the concept of white trash was the absolute worst. Blacks were considered several rungs up the social ladder from white trash. Now its true that this is because it was felt that a white person should be held to a higher standard and therefore when they don't live up to it they are considered the lowest of the low. But it doesn't change the fact that a Black farmer or business owner was looked on much more highly than poor whites.

And what about poor blacks?

And you totally ignored the sundown towns and lynchings. In Southern culture, did white trash (a term I despise, btw) have to worry about being lynched if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or got randomly accused of assaulting a black woman?

 

[DallasApple]

Oh, I wasn't offended Dallas. I'm sorry to have given you that impression. I'm just thinking that this topic is too difficult to discuss in an online forum. It had nothing to do with you personally.

Anyway, I am in danger of wasting another day here as opposed to house chores and gardening.

Me too..grandbaby just woke from nap..and have to go to my sisters for Easter celebration..

My H is P'eed off..LOL!! I love talking to ya'll so much.Im "addicted"..

(but I dyed easter egss last night..and now I go celebrate with family..CULTURE!! )

Love

Dallas

 

[blackout]

Why is Obama labeled "black?"

Why do they call me "Violet"?

Next to purple I'm definately black.
I guess we just are what we are.

If you don't like it...
if you don't like what you are
be something else.

If you don't like what they call you...
call yourSelf something else.

Choose a label you LIKE for gawd's sake!
Don't let other people tell you who/what you are.

If your label works for you?
good.
Work it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not only does he look black, rather than biracial, everyone also refers to him as black.

A minority pride thing? Why should we be proud OR ashamed of our genetic heritage?A minority pride thing? Why should we be proud OR ashamed of our genetic heritage?

Because society dictates certain things. Many people who are different, for whatever reason, are ashamed because society thinks it is wrong. People who are proud of it have embraced the difference, despite of what society says.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

:areyoucra What I have consistently said is that the category of "white" denoted who had access to certain privileges and who didn't. Catholics, and by that I mean mainly Irish and Italians, were not originally considered "white" in this country. In fact, there were store signs that said things like "No dogs or Irish allowed." And there were derogatory slurs for Italians like WOP and dago. But over time, the category of "white" has been expanded to include more than just anglo saxon protestants. They have white privilege now. They did not before. Which is further evidence that "white" is nothing more than a social construct.

But it is more than a social construct. It is a label with various meaning depending on the context of the discussion. You yourself have used it in several ways depending on the point you wish to make.

But it all boils down to you wanting to push your agenda. You want white to mean something bad and you want white people to feel guilty and rush to embrace your solution which is to voluntarily stop using the term white, all because you personally have a problem with it.

And what about poor blacks?

And you totally ignored the sundown towns and lynchings. In Southern culture, did white trash (a term I despise, btw) have to worry about being lynched if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or got randomly accused of assaulting a black woman?

I'm not fond of any racially derogatory terms, what's that got to do with anything?

Yes, African-American's had more to fear from institutionalized racialism. I wish there weren't true but I'm not guilty of those crimes, nor were anyone in my immediate family. So what is it you want me to say about the activities of the KKK? My grandfather ran them off our property under threats of death by shotgun when they tried to burn a cross in our yard. I don't really see what any of that has to do with the discussion but I have plenty of first hand knowledge of the Klan and it's workings. Hell I went to high school with the son of a former Grand High Wizard. Does that mean something about me? I'm I guilty merely by coming into contact with it?

 

[Kathryn]

re: Obama. In the U.S. "Black" was defined as including mixed race people. I think this is changing.

As the mother of 3 mixed-race children, this is one of my gripes too. The school always wants me to check one, only one box. Hey, my kids don't fit in one box. I'd like not to have to answer the question at all, or at least, if they need statistics, to check all that apply, which would be more honest. Instead I end up capitulating and checking their damn box, but writing my vociferous objections on their form.

Hey, that's a good idea as well. My kids are all grown now and can you believe THEY STILL HAVE THOSE CATEGORIES on the school registration papers? My daughters simply refuse to fill them out (wonder where they got that from?) I mean, what are they going to put down? My grandchildren are all of these ethnicities: Panamanian, Jewish, Sicilian, African American, German, French, English, Scottish, Native American, Swiss - and now we've added Korean!

Hey, Auto - we should put our kids in those Betteton (or however you spell it) ads.

 

[blackout]

I/we never fill in those boxes either.

 

[Kathryn]

Haven't Americans, in more than 200 years (or about 450 years if you count before we became a separate country), created their own cultures separate from the various countries their ancestors came from?
My grandfather was Italian, born in Italy, came to America when he was about 3 years old in 1914 (I think). I was stationed in Italy for 2 years in the Navy, and all the Italians knew I was an American (most of them anyway). It doesn't matter that I am 1/2 Navajo, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 various European Jewish background. Other countries see me as American (as they should).

Hey, maybe we're cousins on the European Jewish side of things. Got any Rebsamens on your side of the family?

 

[Kathryn]

I also grew up in the South and had a completely different experience. I was surrounded by Black people all the time. My grandfather employeed a lot of them and they were always coming to the house because he ran his business out of it. Also, several were personal friends of the family. My schools were generally half Black and while there was some tension, the kids still played together. And I'm talking about the 70s and early 80s here. I wasn't taught to love Black people, I wasn't told how to treat them. I was shown. The Black people who I came in contact with were treated the same as everyone else I came contact with.

I can really relate to this. My family has lived in the southern US since the 1700s. Many of my ancestors actually owned slaves (not that I'm proud of that.) But the records we have of this are from the mid 1800s and they are very indepth. It's interesting because my ancestor didn't buy any slaves - he inherited them and it was his responsibility to take care of them - he was sort of at a loss about what to do with them. The slaves he owned were scared to death that he was going to "put them out" at the end of the war. He ended up freeing them (of course) but they didn't go anywhere - they just stayed in their housing on his farm and sharecropped. Things stayed about the same.

These same black and white families still live in the same area - on the same land - actually in some of the same houses (my parents' house was built by former slave owners - my dad's ancestors - and former slaves in the late 1800s). We visit each other's churches, attend each other's weddings and funerals, visit each other, etc etc. We are friends with these families. This is the "racism" I grew up around.

My very first memory of being disciplined by my dad was when I called my brother the N word when I was five. Heck , I didn't even know what it meant. The next thing I knew my dad had me pushed up against the wall and his finger was pointing in my face and he told me in the sternest voice I had ever heard up to that point, "I better not EVER hear that word come out of your mouth again!"

I guess racism could have been happening all around me but I was certainly not aware of it. The first two years I went to school, schools were still segregated - but I was living on a military installation and that is such an integrated lifestyle that I never even realized that "blacks" had even had to fight for the right to attend the same schools.

Racism continues to amaze me whenever I see it.