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Why is pleasure bad according to any religion you belong to?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It has been verified, by countless observations. You're just a dishonest Christian with a keyboard. You know how they observed it? They measured it with machines. They are the ones who know about their **** because it's there job, not the great dumb animal that is the christian propaganda machine. Your brain is all kinds of angry, confused and sad. Try meditation it might unconfuse you and make you see the light.
Spoiler Alert!
I am not a Christian, I am a Baha'i. However, we share some of the same teachings about the world.

“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329

Spoiler Alert!
I have a MA in Psychology so I know all about what psychologists say we need. I just don't happen to agree with them.

I am not angry, confused, or sad. I am very happy that I don't need the physical pleasures of this life. Been there, done that.

Maybe we do need to have pleasure in our lives, I don't deny that, but there are many ways whereby people get pleasure. I get pleasure from my work and from engaging in intellectual pursuits or helping people. I also get pleasure from watching TV, listening to music, watching birds and wildlife, being with my cats and eating foods that I like.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
From Bing

"The Old Testament book of Leviticus, chapter 25, verses 2-4 states that “When you enter the land I will give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the Lord. For six years sow your fields, and for six years prune your vineyards and gather their crops. But in the seventh year the land is to have a year of sabbath rest, a sabbath to the Lord” "

The reason why this is good is because it allows Nature to reset the living through bacterium soil.

This was put into practice because of what amounts to common sense.
Yes and yes......... That was a good law for its time and place....... and it was common sense.
I can't think of an old law that wasn't common sense.

Now to till the land is futile because it destroys the soil and kills it.
Where you are that is probably true......... dust blowing in the wind, etc.
"In Genesis 3:17-19, God punishes Adam for eating the forbidden fruit by cursing the ground and making it difficult for him to grow crops. The verse reads: “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return” "
I'm talking about the old laws written for the Israelites and any others who might have been interested.
Your god is dumb enough to till land.
I'm not a Theist, Chiefthecef......... I just think that those old laws were brilliant, and written by men!
I'm a deist, and so a total pagan to theists. But those old laws were brilliant, even the ceremonial and dress code ones, which of course we have until this day in one form or another.
But I'm a pagan....would gladly have danced around in a wooded clearing in moon light with a bunch of maidens, or whatever. Sadly I wasn't bright enough to figure all that out!
Our Giants of whom we stand uponj theior shoulders are better than yours.
You/we exist on a spec of dust........ let's not get too bigheaded. And we're making a mess of things, this past couple of centuries.
Let's humble ourselves before Nature, because if we don't we can be gone, but Nature can go on until the end of this planet, and everywhere else. ;)
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Spoiler Alert!
I am not a Christian, I am a Baha'i. However, we share some of the same teachings about the world.

“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329

Spoiler Alert!
I have a MA in Psychology so I know all about what psychologists say we need. I just don't happen to agree with them.

I am not angry, confused, or sad. I am very happy that I don't need the physical pleasures of this life. Been there, done that.

Maybe we do need to have pleasure in our lives, I don't deny that, but there are many ways whereby people get pleasure. I get pleasure from my work and from engaging in intellectual pursuits or helping people. I also get pleasure from watching TV, listening to music, watching birds and wildlife, being with my cats and eating foods that I like.
Hello Trailblazer........ I am here after a very long break.
I look forward to exchanging posts with you.

Reading your post, my pleasures have fallen away on one hand, yet risen up upon others.... and I welcome every moment that I get. :)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Hello Trailblazer........ I am here after a very long break.
I look forward to exchanging posts with you.

Reading your post, my pleasures have fallen away on one hand, yet risen up upon others.... and I welcome every moment that I get. :)
Glad you're back. I was going to say hi before but you looked very busy. :)
I also look forward to conversing with you again.
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
Yes and yes......... That was a good law for its time and place....... and it was common sense.
I can't think of an old law that wasn't common sense.


Where you are that is probably true......... dust blowing in the wind, etc.

I'm talking about the old laws written for the Israelites and any others who might have been interested.

I'm not a Theist, Chiefthecef......... I just think that those old laws were brilliant, and written by men!
And that's because of that that I think you are exploiting the masses by mass communication
I'm a deist, and so a total pagan to theists. But those old laws were brilliant, even the ceremonial and dress code ones, which of course we have until this day in one form or another.
See that's the thing. You're trying to establish yourself as credible because my god IS real. What credibility is deism? You just posit your god is real.
But I'm a pagan....would gladly have danced around in a wooded clearing in moon light with a bunch of maidens, or whatever. Sadly I wasn't bright enough to figure all that out!

You/we exist on a spec of dust........ let's not get too bigheaded.
Nah, because you support by proxy genocide of peoples through Christian extremeists, and the kicker, you're proven wrong by facts.
And we're making a mess of things, this past couple of centuries.
Let's humble ourselves before Nature, because if we don't we can be gone, but Nature can go on until the end of this planet, and everywhere else. ;)
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
Spoiler Alert!
I am not a Christian, I am a Baha'i. However, we share some of the same teachings about the world.

“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329
That's Proto-Science. Keep that in mind.
Spoiler Alert!
I have a MA in Psychology so I know all about what psychologists say we need. I just don't happen to agree with them.

I am not angry, confused, or sad. I am very happy that I don't need the physical pleasures of this life. Been there, done that.

Maybe we do need to have pleasure in our lives, I don't deny that, but there are many ways whereby people get pleasure. I get pleasure from my work and from engaging in intellectual pursuits or helping people. I also get pleasure from watching TV, listening to music, watching birds and wildlife, being with my cats and eating foods that I like.
Your compass by which to see what is pleasurable is wrong. I suspect as a bahai person you either are a foreigner come to a school in the West, or are a sort of queer person (not homosexual, pervert :) ) like myself, and you were the target for all kinds of propaganda from people with agenda your whole life like me. Choose Science it bases itself on facts not guesses, and larp (sorry for the wording) Reality, not an individual reality.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
It has been verified, by countless observations. You're just a dishonest Christian with a keyboard. You know how they observed it? They measured it with machines. They are the ones who know about their **** because it's there job, not the great dumb animal that is the christian propaganda machine. Your brain is all kinds of angry, confused and sad. Try meditation it might unconfuse you and make you see the light.

Numerous philosophers of science have tried to explain why the scientific-revolution occurred during a Christian milieu rather than a Chinese or some other environment? They came to numerous conclusions to include the idea that Christians put God outside of the world such that the world is more like a machine than a pantheistic-being (ala the non Judeo/Christian metaphysics). As a machine (functioning like any other machine) the world has gears and mechanisms and follows laws some of which can be tweaked, and some not so much.

Once God and the world were thought to functioned in a binary manner, so too the human body became, in relationship to the soul, what the world is to God: a mere machine and not the heart and soul of reality. Such that for Christianity, sound science requires that the scientist accepts the undeniable fact that reality isn't subsumed, nor even faithfully presented, in human perception. The world is nothing like what a human is made to perceive once the organs of his body have developed their contrived inner environment.

Thinking in this way made the early Christian scientists come to realize that those cultures and peoples who bought into the human body as a nearly diaphanous veil just barely separating reality from human perception (such that pleasure, for instance, is one of the most desirable possessions of the healthy human) tended to be (the naturalist or aboriginal peoples were) the lowest on the totem pole so far as scientific and intellectual reasoning were concerned.

Which is to say that the Christian scientists came to see that pleasure, particularly the summum bonum of pleasure, sex, more often led cultures and societies that sought it out heartily to implode or become subject to those cultures and societies that put limits on the pursuit of pleasure be it sex or drugs.

In every way, the Christian societies and cultures began to see that what the body wants, desires, and makes appear to be healthy and good, is nothing of the sort. The body, like the world, is a liar. The sun is not the same size as the moon, the earth is not flat, and neither this world, nor this human body, is the summum bonum of truth and fidelity: the Bible is. Trying to bring some of these Judeo/Christian truths into a materialistic, or modern aboriginal framework, the modern aborigine Richard Dawkins says:

It is the glory of the human cerebral cortex that it -----unique among all animals and unprecedented in all geological time ---has the power to defy the dictates of the selfish genes. We can enjoy sex without procreation. We can devote our lives to philosophy, mathematics, poetry, astrophysics, music, geology, or the warmth of human love, in defiance of the old [reptile] brain's genetic urging that these are a waste of time ---time that "should" be spent fighting rivals and pursuing multiple sexual partners: "As I see it, we have a profound choice to make. It is a choice between favoring the old brain or favoring the new brain. More specifically, do we want our future to be driven by the processes that got us here, namely, natural selection, competition, and the drive of the selfish genes? Or, do we want our future to be driven by intelligence and its desire to understand the world?"​
Richard Dawkins, introducing Jeff Hawkins, One Thousand Brains: A New Theory of Intelligence (bracket mine, based on earlier comment in intro. Last quotation is Dawkins quoting Hawkins).
Anyone with a modicum of honesty can see that what Dawkins presents as a new understanding for atheistic scientists is the heart and soul of what practicing Jews and Christians have been saying for thousands of years. The Torah and the Gospels are the instigators of doubt concerning the reality of the world as perceived. The Torah and the Gospels are the instigators of doubt concerning the veracity of the human body and its means of perception. That modern aborigines like Dawkins and Daniel Dennett are just now, near the end of this epoch of humanity, trying to climb on board the Judeo/Christian golden parachute, is as laughable as when, in the days of Noah, those who laughed him to scorn were drowning to death clinging to the barnacles and bark of the Ark they found so silly just days before.

These are the end days. Atheists and agnostics scientists will soon be seen clining to strings and things dangling from the golden parachute as they try to escape the fiery conflagration taking place beneath the golden parachute filled to the brim with Jews and Christians. What's laughable now will soon be causing the laughers to be crying and gnashing their teeth trying to gain salvation through the reality they fought against tooth and nail a fortnight ago.



John
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Your compass by which to see what is pleasurable is wrong.
We all have a different compass so what is pleasurable to one person is not pleasurable to others.
Also, something might 'feel good' physically yet not be important to me as it is for others, since I do not value physical pleasure.
I suspect as a bahai person you either are a foreigner come to a school in the West, or are a sort of queer person (not homosexual, pervert :) ) like myself, and you were the target for all kinds of propaganda from people with agenda your whole life like me. Choose Science it bases itself on facts not guesses, and larp (sorry for the wording) Reality, not an individual reality.
No, I am not any of that which you noted.
As a Baha'i, I believe in the harmony of science and religion, and that both are vital for the maintenance and advancement of civilization.

Science and Religion

Bahá’ís reject the notion that there is an inherent conflict between science and religion, a notion that became prevalent in intellectual discourse at a time when the very conception of each system of knowledge was far from adequate. The harmony of science and religion is one of the fundamental principles of the Bahá’í Faith, which teaches that religion, without science, soon degenerates into superstition and fanaticism, while science without religion becomes merely the instrument of crude materialism. “Religion,” according to the Bahá’í writings, “is the outer expression of the divine reality. Therefore, it must be living, vitalized, moving and progressive.”1Science is the first emanation from God toward man. All created things embody the potentiality of material perfection, but the power of intellectual investigation and scientific acquisition is a higher virtue specialized to man alone. Other beings and organisms are deprived of this potentiality and attainment.2

So far as earthly existence is concerned, many of the greatest achievements of religion have been moral in character. Through its teachings and through the examples of human lives illumined by these teachings, masses of people in all ages and lands have developed the capacity to love, to give generously, to serve others, to forgive, to trust in God, and to sacrifice for the common good. Social structures and institutional systems have been devised that translate these moral advances into the norms of social life on a vast scale. In the final analysis, the spiritual impulses set in motion by the Founders of the world’s religions—the Manifestations of God—have been the chief influence in the civilizing of human character.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá has described science as the “most noble” of all human virtues and “the discoverer of all things”.3 Science has enabled society to separate fact from conjecture. Further, scientific capabilities—of observing, of measuring, of rigorously testing ideas—have allowed humanity to construct a coherent understanding of the laws and processes governing physical reality, as well as to gain insights into human conduct and the life of society.

Taken together, science and religion provide the fundamental organizing principles by which individuals, communities, and institutions function and evolve.

Science and Religion | An Ever-Advancing Civilization | God and His Creation | What Bahá’ís Believe
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I've heard something before but can't even remember it
It just depends on what pleasures you are talking about. Please can be good or bad, To a ridiculous example - someone who derives pleasure in hurting other people. Obviously wrong, but a great example of how please could be bad.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
And that's because of that that I think you are exploiting the masses by mass communication
I don't think so........ I'm in communication on here, same as you.
And I don't know anybody myself who has ever read about those 613 laws.....there will be members on here that have but I don't know them.
See that's the thing. You're trying to establish yourself as credible because my god IS real. What credibility is deism? You just posit your god is real.
The idea of Deists trying to sell deism is most strange, because I've never read a single introduction to it in my life......... Deism is just an idea and has no congregation that I know of. Deists believe that the deity is totally unaware of us.
Deism is but one pace away from Atheism.
Nah, because you support by proxy genocide of peoples through Christian extremeists, and the kicker, you're proven wrong by facts.
We haven't discussed Christianity, Chefthecef..... and I don't know a Christian who supports the 613 laws of Moses, although some can shout out just a few. So far you haven't got much right about me, but I did like your reference to North American dust bowls caused by ploughing.
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
We all have a different compass so what is pleasurable to one person is not pleasurable to others.
The thing of it is: that doesn't even come close to meaning your compass is not off.
Also, something might 'feel good' physically yet not be important to me as it is for others, since I do not value physical pleasure
ANd that shows your compass is off. No one agrees with you including most monotheists. People like you keep power with dishonest ways stemming all the way back to akhenaten.
No, I am not any of that which you noted.
As a Baha'i, I believe in the harmony of science and religion, and that both are vital for the maintenance and advancement of civilization.
You are a monotheist.
Science and Religion

Bahá’ís reject the notion that there is an inherent conflict between science and religion,
Then you have tons of your religion to change.
a notion that became prevalent in intellectual discourse at a time when the very conception of each system of knowledge was far from adequate. The harmony of science and religion is one of the fundamental principles of the Bahá’í Faith, which teaches that religion, without science, soon degenerates into superstition and fanaticism, while science without religion becomes merely the instrument of crude materialism. “Religion,” according to the Bahá’í writings, “is the outer expression of the divine reality. Therefore, it must be living, vitalized, moving and progressive.”1Science is the first emanation from God toward man. All created things embody the potentiality of material perfection, but the power of intellectual investigation and scientific acquisition is a higher virtue specialized to man alone. Other beings and organisms are deprived of this potentiality and attainment.2

So far as earthly existence is concerned, many of the greatest achievements of religion have been moral in characte

And many more, especially notable now, dishonest, deplorable and disgusting and downright violent acts have been committed to preserve half baked knowledge
r. Through its teachings and through the examples of human lives illumined by these teachings, masses of people in all ages and lands have developed the capacity to love, to give generously, to serve others, to forgive, to trust in God, and to sacrifice for the common good.
ANd to disdain pleasure which is necessary for a good life for most people
Social structures and institutional systems have been devised that translate these moral advances into the norms of social life on a vast scale. In the final analysis, the spiritual impulses set in motion by the Founders of the world’s religions—the Manifestations of God—have been the chief influence in the civilizing of human character.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá has described science as the “most noble” of all human virtues and “the discoverer of all things”.3 Science has enabled society to separate fact from conjecture. Further, scientific capabilities—of observing, of measuring, of rigorously testing ideas—have allowed humanity to construct a coherent understanding of the laws and processes governing physical reality, as well as to gain insights into human conduct and the life of society.

Taken together, science and religion provide the fundamental organizing principles by which individuals, communities, and institutions function and evolve.

Science and Religion | An Ever-Advancing Civilization | God and His Creation | What Bahá’ís Believe
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
It just depends on what pleasures you are talking about. Please can be good or bad, To a ridiculous example - someone who derives pleasure in hurting other people. Obviously wrong, but a great example of how please could be bad.
Ah but do you know that even bad allows for growth and that it is beneficial? How twisteth your proud riddle now?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The thing of it is: that doesn't even come close to meaning your compass is not off.
My compass is not off because I am the one who determines what direction I want to go in and I am going in that direction.
ANd that shows your compass is off. No one agrees with you including most monotheists. People like you keep power with dishonest ways stemming all the way back to akhenaten.
Why would it matter if other people agree with me? What many people believe is no indicator of what is true.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.
ANd to disdain pleasure which is necessary for a good life for most people
I do not disdain pleasure.

What is the real meaning of pleasure?

enjoyment, happiness

enjoyment, happiness, or satisfaction, or something that gives this: His visits gave his grandparents such pleasure.

PLEASURE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Sorry if I bothered you with that. I didn't realize what I said until I said it. Thank you for being resilient, that helps one be happy, which benefits the health mentally and physically. It's sad so few know the true methods of happiness.
If happiness is a warm gun as the Beatles theorized it did not work for me. Strangely enough I could tolerate firing a gun at the firing range but could not feel comfortable firing one in the woods. My dad could not make a hunter out of me.
 

ChieftheCef

Active Member
If happiness is a warm gun as the Beatles theorized it did not work for me. Strangely enough I could tolerate firing a gun at the firing range but could not feel comfortable firing one in the woods. My dad could not make a hunter out of me.
If you **** me off I will retaliate.
 
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