Why is religion so fascinated with homosexuality?

[Unveiled Artist]

I see, it also is the definition of "person," for the me a person is distinct from their acts and from their nature, and one can love a person but desire their acts to be changed (for example how my mother loved me but wanted me to do better in school, no one would say this was a lack of love or loving only part of me, for they recognize the distinction between person and acts). It would be interesting to see how these ideas came about through history and developed, for there has been a divergence here.

I'm a bit flipped flop on actions vs. identity. My sexuality, artistic passion, things I do that defines my identity (if that's the correct way to phrase it), and things like that is what I'm working on in a spiritual sense. I found I can't really sit and pray/meditate myself into awakening but have to do something and it just "flows" type of thing. So, if my friend says they don't like my actions, that's fine. I don't like a lot of people's actions. If they define me "by" my actions according to their morals that's what I disagree with. For example, you can say you dislike same-sex sex but that's totally different than calling me a sinner because you define homosexuals as people who have same-sex sex. My actions with people I love isn't seen as sinful as straight couples likewise, so it's a catch-22 with that. Not something I'd defriend a person for unless they bluntly insult me but they wouldn't be my best friend because their values redefine me.

When it comes to religious values I'm getting more the impression our actions put in the wind (if one likes) somehow influences our future actions and we reconcile the leftovers of our past to reconcile ourselves in the present. So actions are very important and I've experienced this. So it's hard to hear a friend say "the way you love your significant other (instead of wife) is a sin." If I were christian I'd be deeply insulted.

This is just my opinion, though. Sometimes people's values clash so much it would be near a difficult to be more than an everyday friend.

 

[Psalm23]

It's your definition of love, though. If that friend feels you only love a part of him, to him that's one-sided. You have good intentions but your religious values influences how you see people who don't conform to christian religious edicts.

So if he were to bring home a boyfriend you may respect his boyfriend even the love has for his boyfriend but not insofar you accept he is not sinning because that is not what his love is based on.

It varies person to person. For me personally as a gay woman if I know my friend(s) see my hypothetical girlfriend and I as sinners and they love/respect me nonetheless it's offensive. Their belief but it makes me kind of icky inside to know they love part of me not the whole me.

Another example is defining a homosexual by same-sex actions. That influences christians opinions profoundly. But, yeah, it just depends on the person. Not specific to homosexuals but minorities in general.

Are you implying you would feel like in this scenario with the friend that you would not feel fully accepted unless you were to change?

Perhaps the church promotes the idea knowingly or unknowingly of needing to change oneself in order for God to accept them. But that to me doesn’t sound like love.

Looking at my own self I feel like I picked up this idea of needing to change myself in my own faith. For I often have felt insecurity in relating to God/Jesus. I don’t think it is a good or healthy way of approaching relationships or relating to God.

 

[JustGeorge]

But surely many Christians do think they're incompatible, don't they?

Absolutely.

I find many(but not all) who do also have a tendency to insert themselves into other areas of folks' lives as well. Not sure why that's such an attractive calling... I have enough to worry about without having to micromanage what other people do. Perhaps they have too much spare time on their hands..

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why are non-Christians so obsessed with what Christians are obsessed with?

Cause they are killed, abused, indoctrinated, and pretty much fed up with a lot of people who represent christianity. Outside of that most of us really don't care.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

T...and of course the bible wasn't written in english.

And so we come up against Paul's use of the word (ἀρσενοκοίτης), "arsenokoitēs" (tragically beginning with those first 3 letters which provides "colour" to the rest, even for those who don't understand it).

 

[SomeRandom]

For a long time, people thought semen contained the entire "seed" for a baby. It was assumed that the woman only contributed a place for the man's semen to grow. That's probably part of it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why are non-Christians so obsessed with what Christians are obsessed with?

If you had ever been the non-Christian target of a committed Christian Missionary, I doubt you'd ask that question. Let me refer you to Fiji, Goa, Tasmania, and so many, many more.

 

[robocop (actually)]

If you had ever been the non-Christian target of a committed Christian Missionary, I doubt you'd ask that question. Let me refer you to Fiji, Goa, Tasmania, and so many, many more.

I don't understand the relationship between theology and homosexuality very well.

If I were cynical I'd say Christianity was a business and they get long-term profits through birthing babies.

 

[SomeRandom]

If you had ever been the non-Christian target of a committed Christian Missionary, I doubt you'd ask that question. Let me refer you to Fiji, Goa, Tasmania, and so many, many more.

That’s kind of why half my mother’s side is Catholic. My Aunty and Uncle were forced to attend a Catholic school in Fiji (you have to have an education there or starve.) Much to the chagrin of my grandfather. Always felt a little weird to me. Since they pretty much shrugged it off by merely putting Jesus in their shrine alongside “everyone else.”
Interestingly my Uncle raised his kids Catholic whereas my Aunty raised hers Hindu.
Not sure if that means the Mission was half successful or not.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't understand the relationship between theology and homosexuality very well.

If I were cynical I'd say Christianity was a business and they get long-term profits through birthing babies.

Ah! Then you get it very well. Theology has always been about ensuring that the clergy is clothed, housed and fed. Oh, and get looked up to by the community -- because, well, we all want that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ah! Then you get it very well. Theology has always been about ensuring that the clergy is clothed, housed and fed. Oh, and get looked up to by the community -- because, well, we all want that.

Naked clergymen. No, we definitely do not want to see that

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Naked clergymen. No, we definitely do not want to see that

Oh, I've know one or two might have been worth a wee peek.

 

[Sand Dancer]

So as we natter away (yet again) in another thread about homosexuality, I'm curious about something: why are religious types, especially conservatives, so interested? Why do they care so much?

Here's a little quote from a gay priest, Malcolm Johnston, in his book "Diary of a Gay Priest: The Tightrope Walker:"

"It is condemned. It is expressly forbidden in Scripture...Four General Councils forbid it, Luther and Zwingli weighed in against it, and until recently it was distasteful to most people. What is it? Lending money at interest."

Shakespeare created one of his greatest villains (Shylock) based on the practice of taking usance (interest). Jews prospered all over the Christian world because kings and nobles needed to borrow money, but their own subjects, unable to charge interest, were unwilling to spot them large sums.

So why aren't conservative Christians railing against lending at interest?

American Christians were loathe to give up their slaves -- claiming it was permitted, even encouraged by Scripture. But they gave them up eventually, but long, long before they were willing to give up their hatred towards gays.

Even though Jesus couldn't even be bothered mentioning the subject!

So, Christians -- enlighten us. Why is this topic so important that it occupies so much of these forums?

Not all religions, just the US pseudo Christians.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I think homosexuality is a part of culture so that may be one reason it is discussed often.

I think unfortunately that homosexuality is brought up at times as a tool to condemn or judge others not like oneself.

People tend to come down hard on "sins" that they don't have a propensity to commit. So many hetero ones tend to commit adultery.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Ah! Then you get it very well. Theology has always been about ensuring that the clergy is clothed, housed and fed. Oh, and get looked up to by the community -- because, well, we all want that.

Ah, but I'm not that cynical. I don't think that's the reason.

But I don't understand the theology about homosexuality very well.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Why are non-Christians so obsessed with what Christians are obsessed with?

Because their obsessions hurt people.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Because their obsessions hurt people.

I'm noticing that more after this thread.

 

[Sand Dancer]

For a long time, people thought semen contained the entire "seed" for a baby. It was assumed that the woman only contributed a place for the man's semen to grow. That's probably part of it.

Hence, the later view that Mary was also perfect, not just a woman.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I get it -- but this is how change happens!

In many countries around the world, the notion that marking an "X" on a piece of paper could make their lives better (eventually) is total nonsense. But I'm a committed democrat (lower case) as I suppose you are, too.

There was a time when the idea that a commoner didn't have to bow, curtsey or give way to a noble was unthinkable. I don't think that anymore, do you?

And a lot of younger people (straight ones, even) live in marriages that are fundamentally equal. My best friend and his wife do not see themselves as unequal, and sometimes the discussions about going forward can take some time and effort -- because at no time does one get to say, "well I'm the man, so I get to decide!" Those sorts don't actually have much difficulty understanding the possible dynamic of a life-long same-sex relationship.

I get it -- but this is how change happens!

In many countries around the world, the notion that marking an "X" on a piece of paper could make their lives better (eventually) is total nonsense. But I'm a committed democrat (lower case) as I suppose you are, too.

There was a time when the idea that a commoner didn't have to bow, curtsey or give way to a noble was unthinkable. I don't think that anymore, do you?

And a lot of younger people (straight ones, even) live in marriages that are fundamentally equal. My best friend and his wife do not see themselves as unequal, and sometimes the discussions about going forward can take some time and effort -- because at no time does one get to say, "well I'm the man, so I get to decide!" Those sorts don't actually have much difficulty understanding the possible dynamic of a life-long same-sex relationship.

I don't disagree. I'm in an opposite-sex marriage of equals myself.

My point is that religious homophobia tends to come as a package deal with religious sexism... and IMO, the latter helps to fuel the former.

Find a church that opposes same-sex marriage and you'll generally find a church that peddles all sorts of harmful ideas about gender norms as well.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are you implying you would feel like in this scenario with the friend that you would not feel fully accepted unless you were to change?

Yes. I had a former catholic friend like that. I didn't know until later, though. My current friend (and former girlfriend) I have now is a christian. She's the only christian I know that lives her christian values as a gay woman, and because she is a gay woman doesn't have that discrepancy with judging the intention by the action rather than action by the intent.

Perhaps the church promotes the idea knowingly or unknowingly of needing to change oneself in order for God to accept them. But that to me doesn’t sound like love.

I don't see it as a "church" issue since I've known many very god loving individual in the church. The difference is that they don't promote air their views. For example, years ago in Mass during one of the holidays the priest talked about marriage. He didn't say significant other and didn't say anything political nor was it biased. He just discussed in sermon the value of marriage between male and female and how that relates to christ, the sacraments, and the relationship with the church as a vocation.

Other churches I've known build their whole sermons around the sin of homosexual relationships. So, it just differs from individual and it seems parish to parish.

Looking at my own self I feel like I picked up this idea of needing to change myself in my own faith. For I often have felt insecurity in relating to God/Jesus. I don’t think it is a good or healthy way of approaching relationships or relating to God.

I feel that's what spirituality really does-forces you to work on yourself and using your faith as a support and guideline to do so. I was "told" people usually get it by age 50 or so, but I don't know if that's quite true...