Why is religious faith considered a virtue?

[jmvizanko]

In fact, belief without evidence is one of the worst vices in my book.

It's as grossly backwards to me that some people consider it a virtue as it would be if people considered sloth or greed a virtue. I don't understand it.

Right with you on not understanding. Which is why, as mean as my OP question might sound, I seriously have never seen a justification for it being something worth admiring.

 

[Meow Mix]

Nope, just a modest nerd who leads a pretty simple life, who doesn't need fairy tales to comfort him through the hard times and deal with struggles pragmatically.

I also don't understand the argument that humans would fall apart without belief in invisible friends. Have some religions really succeeded in convincing us that we're so fragile?

 

[jmvizanko]

I also don't understand the argument that humans would fall apart without belief in invisible friends. Have some religions really succeeded in convincing us that we're so fragile?

Well just look at Sweden and Japan. Highly irreligious. And of course they are just chock full of unhappy people battling severe existential crisis.....

 

[Reptillian]

I don't think believing in things without evidence is virtuous...thats certainly not the way I would define faith, although many people do. I can see why faith and piety are traditionally considered virtues. Think about it this way, god is often thought of as the personification of good, truth, justice, wisdom and many other excellent qualities. So when a person is said to have faith or be pious, it suggests that he or she values the qualities that god represents. It also suggests that this person is capable of caring about something greater than himself and about more than just tangible material momentary things. Atheists can have faith too, faith in love, faith in goodness, faith in humanity.

 

[Caladan]

And once again, having something to fall back on doesn't make it true. And if different religions provide that equally, why put unsupported, ignorant faith into this or that particular religion?

It might upset you that their faith may or may not be true, but that is hardly relevant to believing people, is it? it has been the case for centuries. strong faith is admirable, even to secular academics such as myself, I know that at the end of the day, what keeps people around me intact and in order is their tradition which goes back centuries into their past. so modern people like me shrug it off as superstition, but we still join into the family every holiday eat that crap, and remind ourselves where we come from. that we were flea infested people who survived against all odds and kept their tradition.

Nope, just a modest nerd who leads a pretty simple life, who doesn't need fairy tales to comfort him through the hard times and deal with struggles pragmatically.

Well that is great. myself and much of my friends are atheists, but we have an appreciation which borders the insane in our local traditions. because it has kept us safe for centuries. we have deep grudges to religious authorities, but many of us we would still call a rabbi to bless us in marriage or execute a circumcision. without acknowledging tradition, we really have no claim in society or land. if you want to have a normal or successful life, one of the first lessons is to respect the local traditions, even if you are at odds with them.
I criticize religion day in and day out, but at the end of the day I admire the people who practice a tradition for not giving up a way of life against all odds of modernity, I admire the stubborn stiff neck attitude, I admire the fact that many people of faith are successful like the secular public despite the opposition they may receive.
to be a successful atheist, you need to know how to play with other people, especially your 'rivals'. so as a soldier I ate **** from the Jewish settlers, I ate **** from the Muslims, and at the end of the day I know that they taught me the lessons I needed to take in order to survive in a 'godless society'. because these people might not break, where many atheists would. because of the hard way of life that they have or chosen for themselves.

 

[Sunstone]

Well just look at Sweden and Japan. Highly irreligious. And of course they are just chock full of unhappy people battling severe existential crisis.....

Frubals!

 

[Revoltingest]

Faith is neither this nor that. It is everything.....serving both good or evil, making the believer both strong
or weak, making the believer both independent or under authority's thumb. But I've a compliment in these
lame aphorisms....even though faith is the mind killer, it's effect is largely neutral.

 

[Dan4reason]

In the case of common people having faith, their reason is very basic and clear, their reason of faith is for a source of strength in order to deal with their personal hardships, trouble in the family, trouble with work, etc. very basic things, a reason such as this have little to do with lofty quests for empirical truths.

Lets consider the belief that another earth like planet exists in the universe. It is just commonsense to desire some sort of indication, proof, or evidence to believe this. Even simple people won't believe this without some sort of evidence. It is NOT basic and clear to believe that something is true for reasons that do not indicate its truth. It is crazy and irrational to believe in other earth like planets because it makes me feel like there is hope for humanity. Your subjective wishes and desires do not make anything true.

 

[Caladan]

Lets consider the belief that another earth like planet exists in the universe. It is just commonsense to desire some sort of indication, proof, or evidence to believe this. Even simple people won't believe this without some sort of evidence. It is NOT basic and clear to believe that something is true for reasons that do not indicate its truth. It is crazy and irrational to believe in other earth like planets because it makes me feel like there is hope for humanity. Your subjective wishes and desires do not make anything true.

Hey, I may be Jewish, but im not a fan of Issac Asimov, lets stick to practical reality, yes?
people believe because it gives them strength to go on with their normal life. most believers are not religious scholars who debate the factual basis of religion.

 

[Caladan]

Well just look at Sweden and Japan. Highly irreligious. And of course they are just chock full of unhappy people battling severe existential crisis.....

Japan is having a severe crisis with its younger generation because they are losing touch with the hard and disciplined Japanese tradition.

 

[Revoltingest]

Japan is having a severe crisis with its younger generation because they are losing touch with the hard and disciplined Japanese tradition.

After what happened in WW2, I'm OK with this.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

What is virtuous about holding something to be true without evidence or reason? What reasons are there for acclaiming such a thing? Because I have never heard any, and I can't think of one.

Edit: I suppose I might as well throw forward a definition of religious faith:

The confident belief in the truth of a religious idea that is not based on logical proof or material evidence.

So you define the term, then you say it is stupid to accept the term, based on the definition you've provided. Doesn't that set yourself up for a victory? You've already won. Unless the definition of faith is changed (or is changable), your point will remain no matter what argument is brought against it.

 

[jmvizanko]

So you define the term, then you say it is stupid to accept the term, based on the definition you've provided. Doesn't that set yourself up for a victory? You've already won. Unless the definition of faith is changed (or is changable), your point will remain no matter what argument is brought against it.

How so? If so many people laud faith as being something desirable, shouldn't there be reasons out there for why it is a good thing? Sure I am asking the question expecting to win, because I obviously, if you read my religion, think faith is stupid. But that doesn't mean I can't be surprised, and if I am, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

Addition: Is this not an accurate definition of faith?

 

[Dan4reason]

Hey, I may be Jewish, but im not a fan of Issac Asimov, lets stick to practical reality, yes?
people believe because it gives them strength to go on with their normal life. most believers are not religious scholars who debate the factual basis of religion.

You want to stick to pracatical reality like the existence of a man in the sky who made man out of dirt and made woman out of the rib of a man? Unlike this, the existence of other earth like planets is something of practical testable reality. NASA just found a planet that may be earth like.

You are wrong. People believe in God because they think he empirically exists. I claim that there is no evidence so there is no reason to believe.

Of course you might argue that it is totally fine for people to delude themselves into wishful thinking as long as it makes them happy.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

What is virtuous about holding something to be true without evidence or reason? What reasons are there for acclaiming such a thing? Because I have never heard any, and I can't think of one.

Edit: I suppose I might as well throw forward a definition of religious faith:

The confident belief in the truth of a religious idea that is not based on logical proof or material evidence.

Why is it virtuous because your holding to a certain set of beliefs that you believe in even though people deny it or perscute you for it.

 

[Smoke]

If you're going to ask people to believe the implausible, I suppose it's a good strategy to portray that particular kind of gullibility as a virtue.
"I know it doesn't make any sense! that's why it takes real strength of character to believe in it!"

 

[strikeviperMKII]

How so? If so many people laud faith as being something desirable, shouldn't there be reasons out there for why it is a good thing? Sure I am asking the question expecting to win, because I obviously, if you read my religion, think faith is stupid. But that doesn't mean I can't be surprised, and if I am, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

So you started this argument expecting to win, because you know you're right. And you don't see a problem with that?

Addition: Is this not an accurate definition of faith?

I can tell that's what you think faith is. And obviously, this definition doesn't really do anything for you...other than confuse you. So, is it accurate? I don't really know.

You believe faith is stupid. You will stand by that conviction, no? In this you are exercising faith in your belief. Unless you are postulating that you know you are right.

 

[darkendless]

So you started this argument expecting to win, because you know you're right. And you don't see a problem with that?

Faithful people are notorious for moving the goal posts to prevent people challenging their faith.

Its difficult to try and be open-minded when it comes to faith because in so many cases it can be so damaging.

For most faithless people, they/we think we are right until proven otherwise, and think it weak of faithful to ask us to provide evidence.

 

[jmvizanko]

So you started this argument expecting to win, because you know you're right. And you don't see a problem with that?



I can tell that's what you think faith is. And obviously, this definition doesn't really do anything for you...other than confuse you. So, is it accurate? I don't really know.

You believe faith is stupid. You will stand by that conviction, no? In this you are exercising faith in your belief. Unless you are postulating that you know you are right.

Well why haven't you supplied a definition of faith that contradicts mine then? I'm just going with dictionary, am I using the wrong one?

And isn't a lot of debate making a point and then arguing about? How about you actually present an idea about the topic, instead of just attacking that I've posted something you disagree with?

And my conviction is not based on faith, I have the logic that faith is illogical to back it up.

 

[zenzero]

Friend jmvizanko,

Why is religious faith considered a virtue?

It is only a training given by elders / society so that the individual when he really understands he would have developed a habit of good karma.

Otherwise religion is all about learning and practicing ways to reach the state of no-mind.

Love & rgds