Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

[Spiderman]

I could be wrong, but I think for Jews and Seventh day adventists it is Saturday

Yes it is

 

[Ellen Brown]

I could be wrong, but I think for Jews and Seventh day adventists it is Saturday

Oops.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It is a mystery to me why to most Christians, "Shabat" is Sunday.

From what I have been told the first of the catholic would watch the sunrise together on Sunday. This sounds practical I think, because in Judaism sunrise symbolizes renewal of some kind. Also many were Jews, so it would not be good to have it on the Sabbath. The symbolism of renewal is another reason to gather on the first day of the week.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths?

Very controversial topic and for the record, this is not to devalue Judaism or Christianity considering both have important roots from within Islam. This subject is purely my opinion based on the ten plus years of study of Islam, philosophy and its metaphysics.

Without getting into a scriptural debate since this subject is not about debating scripture I’d rather focus on some important points that would make Islam more of a middle and moderate belief system a few points about God:

1) Allah, or God in the Islamic perception is seen as the God of humanity. Although in Jewish philosophy Ha’Shem or YHVH is considered “Master of the World” as I was told, historically and even some of the orthodox lectures from Rabbis seem to present God as centralized to a specific people as opposed to the species of humankind. Allah is one, the Creator of all planets and galaxies. Allah is the Lord of all of the things that existence and that doesn’t and that is in between.

2) Allah like Ha’Shem, is genderless. God is not human and unlike Christianity, God does not need to transform into a human being to save mankind. However, unlike Judaism Islam does not demand 600 plus laws upon individuals, rather the basic minimum for a believer. Islam requires all human beings to respect each other and respect living beings and creatures.

Regarding Study

Averroes once implied in his lectures that Islam imparts the obligation for all believers to question and examine reality for God’s existence. Without simply blindly denying God, one must examine the processes of how things perform and then and only then one will find God’s handiwork.

Regarding Ethics

Unlike Christianity, there is no original sin, therefore, whatever sins you accumulate are of your own doing and of your own soul. Unlike Judaism to be pious one does not need to observe additional laws to conduct oneself although there are sayings in which are suggestive in emulating Muhammad the prophet, these sayings are variant opinions based on the ideas and research from Islamic scholars.

On good and evil Allah is the author of both. Good and evil either come about by individual action, independent action (such as neutral good and evil-that is, actions that result in good and evil are independent of action by the individual for example a tornado that destorys a house and kills a family is independent of human action but can be perceived as bad or evil based on the suffering and or/death). Then there is Allah purposefully inflicting bad things happen to affect and challenge your faith.

The acceptance of prophets

Islam requires the recognition of all prophets from all nations. That means even not mentioned in scripture, if historically one finds monotheistic prophets from different parts of the world one can infer via study, one can study the potential of various prophets that aren’t mentioned in scriptures.

Although this is an opinion, this brief synopsis has shown some important examples.

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths?

Because Islam provides both claims and reasons, while other revealed religions have lost these characteristics.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths?

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths?

Because Islam provides both claims and reasons, while other revealed religions have lost these characteristics.

Regards

How so?

 

[paarsurrey]

How so?

Quran/Islam provides the claims on the core religious issues as well as the reasons in brief in the context of the verses as G-d is All-wise and Quran/Islam does not need any external reasons to provide by its believers. The believers of other revealed religions have to provide reasons or the claims or the both from their own selves.

Regards

 

[Ellen Brown]

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths?

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths?

Because Islam provides both claims and reasons, while other revealed religions have lost these characteristics.

Regards

Um, Judaism came first around 1812 BC (Er that's what Google says...), then Christianity at time zero. In the 7th Century Islam was started by the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. And I think that Islam in many ways is a copy of Judaism. Islam proselytizes, while Judaism does not; and to me is a hateful injustice. Just a couple changes and we could have a universal religion. Un, What??? My big brothers always treated me like that and I hated it !!!

 

[paarsurrey]

Um, Judaism came first around 1812 BC (Er that's what Google says...), then Christianity at time zero. In the 7th Century Islam was started by the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. And I think that Islam in many ways is a copy of Judaism. Islam proselytizes, while Judaism does not; and to me is a hateful injustice. Just a couple changes and we could have a universal religion. Un, What??? My big brothers always treated me like that and I hated it !!!

"Because Islam provides both claims and reasons, while other revealed religions have lost these characteristics."

Neither Judaism nor Christianity nor any other revealed religion provide both claims and reasons from their revealed scripture.
Islam/Quran does not copy anything from the scripture of any other revealed religion. It is just a wrong notion.
Please provide ten continuous verses from a revealed scripture and from Quran that have copied from them to prove one's point of view.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Quran/Islam provides the claims on the core religious issues as well as the reasons in brief in the context of the verses as G-d is All-wise and Quran/Islam does not need any external reasons to provide by its believers. The believers of other revealed religions have to provide reasons or the claims or the both from their own selves.

Regards

Somehow I don't think I agree. I am not even sure that we would agree much on what the core religious issues are.

 

[paarsurrey]

Somehow I don't think I agree. I am not even sure that we would agree much on what the core religious issues are.

Let the believers of a revealed religion come forward, they are supposed to give their core creeds as claims from their revealed scriptures and the reason and the gist of reasons from their revealed scriptures.

I understand that one does not believe in any revealed religion. Right, please?

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Let the believers of a revealed religion come forward, they are supposed to give their core creeds as claims from their revealed scriptures and the reason and the gist of reasons from their revealed scriptures.

I understand that one does not believe in any revealed religion. Right, please?

Regards

I find the idea of belief in a revealed religion weird, even in the abstract.

Religions are not to be believed in, IMO. Nor are they to be revealed. Their popularity will always puzzle me to some extent.

 

[paarsurrey]

I find the idea of belief in a revealed religion weird, even in the abstract.

Religions are not to be believed in, IMO. Nor are they to be revealed. Their popularity will always puzzle me to some extent.

For instance say Christianity. Don't the Christian people in this forum who declare Christianity is not a revealed religion and Gospels is not their revealed scripture from God?
Don't the Judaism people in this forum who declare Judaism is not a revealed religion and Bible is not their revealed scripture from G-d?
So on and so forth,please.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

See, @paarsurrey , what happens is that I do not think that being revealed, presenting themselves as something to be believed in, or focusing on scripture is helpful for any religion.

Those three traits are indeed typical of the Abrahamics. All that means is that they are rather exotic from my perspective.

Or, in Islaam's case, it is not even a religion at all far as I am concerned, because it is just too busy commiting idolatry over the idea of monotheism. I don't think Islaam has a good handle of what a religion is supposed to be. Quite ironically, what religious value it has seems to exist due to the very intervention from Muslims (Bid'ah, "innovation") that it explicitly disapproves of.

Or to put it in other words: Islaam proper has no religious value that I can perceive, but people being people, Muslims often lend it some religious worth anyway - but perhaps only by commiting unwilling heresy.

For instance say Christianity. Don't the Christian people in this forum who declare Christianity is not a revealed religion and Gospels is not their revealed scripture from God?

The grammar that you are using is a bit dodgy, but I think that I understand what you mean. Christianity is indeed a revealed religion. I don't think that is in much doubt at all.

Christianity will always be a bit weird to be, to a large extent because it is a revealed religion. It just sounds too odd to me.

Don't the Judaism people in this forum who declare Judaism is not a revealed religion and Bible is not their revealed scripture from G-d?
So on and so forth,please.

Regards

Judaism is a bit of a special case. While it does very much qualify as a revealed religion, that is not its defining trait (in my opinion). Perhaps because it is not a proselitist religion, it seems to end up taking proper care of its doctrine and practice, and in my eyes it is far more valid as a religion than Christianity usually is or than Islaam allows itself to be.

I see Judaism as far better focused than Christianity, Islaam or even than the Bahai Faith on the actual religious matters - the doctrine proper and the responsibility for its practice and teachings. In other words, it has at least the hint of having what I consider a proper, necessary Dharmic attitude at its core. That is always more difficult for the Abrahamics, because they include such an exalted appreciation for the idea of a deity.

If I somehow came to believe in Ibrahim's God, I would definitely consider Judaism.

But that does not sound very likely.

 

[paarsurrey]

See, @paarsurrey , what happens is that I do not think that being revealed, presenting themselves as something to be believed in, or focusing on scripture is helpful for any religion.

Those three traits are indeed typical of the Abrahamics. All that means is that they are rather exotic from my perspective.

Or, in Islaam's case, it is not even a religion at all far as I am concerned, because it is just too busy commiting idolatry over the idea of monotheism. I don't think Islaam has a good handle of what a religion is supposed to be. Quite ironically, what religious value it has seems to exist due to the very intervention from Muslims (Bid'ah, "innovation") that it explicitly disapproves of.

Or to put it in other words: Islaam proper has no religious value that I can perceive, but people being people, Muslims often lend it some religious worth anyway - but perhaps only by commiting unwilling heresy.



The grammar that you are using is a bit dodgy, but I think that I understand what you mean. Christianity is indeed a revealed religion. I don't think that is in much doubt at all.

Christianity will always be a bit weird to be, to a large extent because it is a revealed religion. It just sounds too odd to me.



Judaism is a bit of a special case. While it does qualify as a revealed religion, that is not central to it (in my opinion). Maybe because it is not a proselitist religion.

In any case, I see it as better focused on the actual doctrine and the responsibility for it, in a way that not even the Bahais achieve among the proselitist Abrahamics. In other words, it has at least the hint of having what I consider a proper, necessary Dharmic attitude at its core.

If I somehow came to believe in Ibrahim's God, I would definitely consider Judaism.

But that does not sound very likely.

I understand one's point of view and I respect it. One does not believe in a revealed religion so one is not in for it, perhaps.
One also knows, and I have written on this that we Muslims don't believe in the term of "Abrahamic Religions", it is a term perhaps, used by the philosophy people for religious discussions.
Quran mentions of a prophet/messenger of G-d by the name Luqman which is not shared by Judaism people or the Christianity people. And there are others also.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

I understand one's point of view and I respect it. One does not believe in a revealed religion so one is not in for it, perhaps.

That seems to be a fair description of how I relate to them.

One also knows, and I have written on this that we Muslims don't believe in the term of "Abrahamic Religions", it is a term perhaps, used by the philosophy people for religious discussion.

True enough. However, I would assume that it is an acceptable enough descriptor even by a very sensitive Muslim perspective. After all, there is no doubt that Islaam has Abraham/Ibrahim as one of its main and early prophets, correct?

There is no obvious reason for Muslims to object to that label. I would be very interested in learning of any reason why it would be unconfortable for Muslims.

Quran mentions of a prophet/messenger of G-d by the name Luqman which is not shared by Judaism people or the Christianity people. And there are others also.

Regards

First I hear of it, but I have no issue with what you say. Of course, Muhammad himself is also a prophet acknowledged by Islaam but not by Judaism or Christianity, so that difference is already established.

 

[paarsurrey]

That seems to be a fair description of how I relate to them.



True enough. However, I would assume that it is an acceptable enough descriptor even by a very sensitive Muslim perspective. After all, there is no doubt that Islaam has Abraham/Ibrahim as one of its main and early prophets, correct?

There is no obvious reason for Muslims to object to that label. I would be very interested in learning of any reason why it would be unconfortable for Muslims.



First I hear of it, but I have no issue with what you say. Of course, Muhammad himself is also a prophet acknowledged by Islaam but not by Judaism or Christianity, so that difference is already established.

There is another revealed religion of Zoroaster, one of its ruler/prophet/messenger with the title name Zulqurnain mentioned in Quran.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Indeed, I forgot about Zoroastrism. In part because I simply do not know enough about it to have much of an opinion about it.

For I know, they may well be a very Dharmic movement that simply happens to be perceived as a revealed religion.

 

[paarsurrey]

That seems to be a fair description of how I relate to them.



True enough. However, I would assume that it is an acceptable enough descriptor even by a very sensitive Muslim perspective. After all, there is no doubt that Islaam has Abraham/Ibrahim as one of its main and early prophets, correct?

There is no obvious reason for Muslims to object to that label. I would be very interested in learning of any reason why it would be unconfortable for Muslims.



First I hear of it, but I have no issue with what you say. Of course, Muhammad himself is also a prophet acknowledged by Islaam but not by Judaism or Christianity, so that difference is already established.

"There is no obvious reason for Muslims to object to that label. I would be very interested in learning of any reason why it would be uncomfortable for Muslims."

The label "Abrahamic Religions" seems to limit the scope of Islam. Islam is a religion for the whole world, this label limits it to a region, that makes it not to properly define Islam which does not belong to any individual.
Anybody who is devoted to the belief of G-d and serves the humanity with devotion is a Muslim in the footstep of Abraham or for that matter any other truthful prophet/messenger of G-d in any part of the world.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Indeed, I forgot about Zoroastrism. In part because I simply do not know enough about it to have much of an opinion about it.

For I know, they may well be a very Dharmic movement that simply happens to be perceived as a revealed religion.

We also don't subscribe to the idea of Dharmic or non-Dharmic descriptions/ classification, believers of G-d and non-believers serves better. Our intention is to unite, instead of dividing humanity.

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

"There is no obvious reason for Muslims to object to that label. I would be very interested in learning of any reason why it would be uncomfortable for Muslims."

The label "Abrahamic Religions" seems to limit the scope of Islam. Islam is a religion for the whole world, this label limits it to a region, that makes it not to properly define Islam which does not belong to any individual.

"Abrahamic" means "related to Abraham (Ibrahim)". It is not a geographical designation.

I think we can all agree that Islaam does in fact directly reference Ibrahim, as well as many other people and concepts, up to Muhammad and the Qur'an. Whether those references limit Islaam somehow is in my opinion a separate discussion from that of whether it should be considered Abrahamic.

Anybody who is devoted to the belief of G-d and serves the humanity with devotion is a Muslim in the footstep of Abraham or for that matter any other truthful prophet/messenger of G-d in any part of the world.

Do you mean that people who literally never heard of Ibrahim, Muhammad or the Qur'an should be considered Muslims if they somehow adopted a similar enough belief in God and a proper attitude towards humanity?

Would that connect to the claim that just-born children are Muslims?

Are you implying that being Muslim is a natural state and that, despite its obvious importance for Muslims, the Qur'an is ultimately "only" enormously helpful instead of actually necessary for a person to become or remain a Muslim?