Why Jesus did not Rule the first time, but will Rule the second time?

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, so we know what happened in history, and we know what the prophecies say about what happens during the second and third "Woes". Can Baha'is make it fit?

I would reply, can you reconcile this for yourself. I personally need no further proof about who are the 3 woes, I do not need ro "make it fit" the explanation given by Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-iqan is the answer and the key for us, if we are interested in pursuing it further.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Since these are black and white answerable questions they rely on peoples opinions.
1) He did not come to rule the 1st time but to set up his "earthly kingdom" the church through which all could be saved. He will rule the second time because this is when his final "spiritual kingdom" is established.
2) Because a kingdom needs a king.

Yes, a spiritual kingdom or government that is also a literal government - Daniel 2:44
Yes, a kingdom needs a king, and Jesus is that king (Matt. 25:34,40) who will soon take kingly action - Rev. 19:14-15
King Jesus will bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe Israel has had many battles but there will only be one where the whole world is arrayed against her. WWI was not that.

Or, the whole world, so to speak, against the religious world
With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to surprisingly become God's modern-day arm of the law against corrupted religion

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This poses a couple of problems for you Tony.
1. Baha'u'llah did not enter Israel as it was the Ottoman empire at the time, the state of Israel did not exist.
2. False prophets are such a common occurrence in Israel they have a name for it, I refer you to the Wikipedia article on Jerusalem Syndrome;

Jerusalem syndrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It poses absolutely no problems for me Daniel. I do not need these things to know who Baha'u'llah is. Others may?

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.............................................................................
Jesus will also foretold to come as a thief in the night.
Already in history Christians expecting this material fulfillment have sold everything and stood on the hills awaiting this event, an event that will never happen with God's Annointed One. At least those that expected this event in 1844, who stood on the hills, did do it in the right year.

Remember: wrong expectations (1844,etc.) does Not make the Bible as wrong just the wrong expectations as wrong !
Yes, 'as a thief in the night ' ( by surprise when the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security....." ( 1st Thess. 5:2-3 )
But those rosy-sounding words can lead people down that old primrose path Not to Safety but prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Rev. 7:14 before Jesus takes the action of Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15 to rid the Earth of wickedness

 

[CG Didymus]

I would reply, can you reconcile this for yourself. I personally need no further proof about who are the 3 woes, I do not need ro "make it fit" the explanation given by Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-iqan is the answer and the key for us, if we are interested in pursuing it further.

Regards Tony

And what might that explanation be? Can you post a link to the quote? The only thing I've ever seen is from Abdul Baha.

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.”[20] The first woe was the advent of the Apostle of God, Muḥammad the son of ‘Abdu’lláh, peace be upon Him. The second woe was that of the Báb, upon Him be glory and praise. The third woe is the great Day of the advent of the Lord of Hosts and the revelation of the promised Beauty. The explanation of this matter is provided in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.”[21] It is therefore evident then that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is upon the heedless, the sinners, and the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the Day of God, and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.​

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And the way I "reconcile" this is that the Baha'is are just making things up. They find a verse that they can make into a prophecy and ignore the context. I suppose you believe differently... That the context does support the Baha'i interpretation. So, that's why I was wondering... How does the context of what happens during the second and third Woe fit in with and support the Baha'i interpretation? I don't believe it does.

And, if Baha'is can't show how the context supports their interpretation, then what am I to think? Except that, indeed, Baha'is have taken the "Woes" out of context and have interpreted them to be Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Which is okay. Lots of people do that. But if Baha'is are doing that, then just admit it. The context doesn't support the Baha'i interpretation. Or, just so you don't get confused.... Tell me how the context fits.

Again, admit that the context doesn't fit. Or... show me how it does fit.

 

[CG Didymus]

Again, admit that the context doesn't fit. Or... show me how it does fit.

Still waiting. I've asked about this context about the second and third Woe now on two different threads. Are there no Baha'is that want to try and show how the context fits in with being about the Bab and Baha'u'llah?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Still waiting. I've asked about this context about the second and third Woe now on two different threads. Are there no Baha'is that want to try and show how the context fits in with being about the Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Try this link CG

https://owlcation.com/humanities/the-three-woes-of-the-apocalypse

Personally I will not find time. I am building an extension in my spare time, working full time and doing a snake handling course.

Such fun.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Try this link CG

https://owlcation.com/humanities/the-three-woes-of-the-apocalypse

Personally I will not find time. I am building an extension in my spare time, working full time and doing a snake handling course.

Such fun.

Regards Tony

That's a real good article... for Baha'is. It was written by a Baha'i.

Kobina Amissah Fynn[1] is a Ghanaian Bahá’í who has served as an Auxiliary Board member and Continental Counselor for Africa.​

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That's the problem... The article goes through the Baha'i interpretation of what "Woe" means... That it is the coming of a manifestation. But it is only these three "woes" that are interpreted that way. There are "woes" later in Revelation and "woes" all throughout the NT and Bible that are not interpreted that way.

The article does little to interpret the events mentioned during the second and third "woe" as to how they support a belief that those "woes" are about the Bab and Baha'u'llah. There is nothing new here. It is based on the same interpretations made by Abdul Baha', which very much ignores the details of the context.

But... a more important question... Why are you taking a course on snake handling? I hope your not planning on dancing around with snakes like the Christian snake handling sect.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But... a more important question... Why are you taking a course on snake handling? I hope your not planning on dancing around with snakes like the Christian snake handling sect

A community service CG. We have some of the most venomous snakes in the world, and I live in the heart of their country. Now I can officially catch and locate them as of today, as now finished the course.

The last snake we tailed, to put into a caching bag was a 2.7m coastal coastal tipan.

Coastal taipan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We also handled the inland taipan and eastern brown snake

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

A community service CG. We have some of the most venomous snakes in the world, and I live in the heart of their country. Now I can officially catch and locate them as of today, as now finished the course.

The last snake we tailed, to put into a caching bag was a 2.7m coastal coastal tipan.

Coastal taipan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We also handled the inland taipan and eastern brown snake

Regards Tony

Oh, well that's better. I thought maybe you had joined the Christian snake handlers and was dancing with them.

It does bring up a creation question... What was God thinking? Did he really have to make their poison so strong? Why not just make so it puts a person to sleep for a few hours?

 

[Eddi]

Two simple questions;

1. Why Jesus did not Rule the first time, but will Rule the second time?

2. What is the purpose of Jesus's Ruling?

I don't think trying to examine God's plans and decision making in such a way can ever be not futile

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh, well that's better. I thought maybe you had joined the Christian snake handlers and was dancing with them.

It does bring up a creation question... What was God thinking? Did he really have to make their poison so strong? Why not just make so it puts a person to sleep for a few hours?

The poision is to subdue their prey, so they can feed and eat in their environment CG.

It's venoms are strong to subdue prey and aid in the digestive process, humans are not prey and no snake will attack without cause. (A fee acceptions to the rule) my experience with snakes is they would rather get out of the way and get about their own business.

A snake is not poisonous, it is venomous. You can eat a snake and not get poisoned.

All the best, Regards Tony

 

[soulsurvivor]

Two simple questions;

1. Why Jesus did not Rule the first time, but will Rule the second time?

First time, Jesus came as a simple teacher. He brought the message of love and caring for your fellow human beings to everyone.

2. What is the purpose of Jesus's Ruling?

This time around the Christ will bring a message of Justice and Peace not just to individual humans but to the nations of the world. The Ruling will indirect - teaching nations rather than individuals.