Why monogamy?

[VoidCat]

Exactly. I was never raised by either my biological parents. By my teens there had been 3 custody cases over me and my siblings. But yeah different topic

@TurkeyOnRye. Just so you know my folks were monogamous. Go figure. But you dont see me saying all monogamy is bad cuz some folk are jerks.

 

[VoidCat]

And some women are just vaginas?
Consider this: even if a male partner is responsible and using protection, if the woman is reckless and becomes pregnant with another man, the first man's sense of security is thrown out the door. Both men are entangled in that dilemma, regardless of their caution. Yes, polyamory or not does matter. Birth control and paternity testing are extremely modern crutches that enable people's irresponsibility. Before the 20th century, polyamory had very high costs. And there are still costs.

Unwanted pregnancy happens in monogamous relationships too. And men sometimes deny responsibility.

 

[Circumradiant]

Democracies and republics have also existed and then disappeared like bubbles. Where are these matriarchies? Maybe women vote just like men. Maybe they also prefer to vote for men. They obviously do. They don't press for a woman instead of a man or an equal representation of women and men. So nothing has changed, and we can see why matriarchies don't persist.

From the little I know, it's said that many indigenous societies are matriarchal. I'm aware of some in the Americas. Speaking of that, polyandry is apparently not that rare. Though I'm not knowledgeable enough to elaborate on these matters.
Suffrage is somewhat unrelated to the discussion, I suppose.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Unwanted pregnancy happens in monogamous relationships too. And men deny responsibility.

False equivalence. It's less likely to happen in a committed monogamous relationship, as there's less doubt. In polyamorous relationships, there's no practical reason for either man to adopt responsibility unless paternity has been proven.

 

[VoidCat]

False equivalence. It's less likely to happen in a committed monogamous relationship, as there's less doubt. In polyamorous relationships, there's no practical reason for either man to adopt responsibility unless paternity has been proven.

Im done. Im not going to engage farther cuz I may end up breaking rules. I dont know why this got me heated but it has got me heated.

 

[Debater Slayer]

How many of them were interested in the rearing of their own biological children? Although I was cavalier in the delivery, that was the center of the argument I was making. Polyamory really throws a wrench into that dynamic.

Every single one of them who has children has raised their own children. I met a few of them through this forum, too.

I would rather assess how responsible each parent was based on their actions rather than what consensual relationship arrangement they had. There are responsible and irresponsible parents out there, be they monogamous or polyamorous.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Every single one of them who has children has raised their own children. I met a few of them through this forum, too.

I would rather assess how responsible each parent was based on their actions rather than what consensual relationship arrangement they had. There are responsible and irresponsible parents out there, be they monogamous or polyamorous.

Can you please describe the make-up of these families, the individuals raising the children in particular? I think that would enrich the discussion very much.

 

[Circumradiant]

False equivalence. It's less likely to happen in a committed monogamous relationship, as there's less doubt. In polyamorous relationships, there's no practical reason for either man to adopt responsibility unless paternity has been proven.

I don't know why there'd be less doubt of paternity in a monogamous relationship. One can just assume that infidelity occurred. Unwanted pregnancy (in general) can happen regardless of system as noted before. Monogamous couples probably have a higher chance of eschewing protection anyway.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Can you please describe the make-up of these families, the individuals raising the children in particular?

I can describe the family arrangements of the two people I'm most familiar with. One of them has three children, and she raised each all the way to adulthood. As far as I know, the children mainly lived with her, although they also spent a lot of time with their respective biological fathers. Sometimes their fathers also visited them at their mother's home.

The second one was raising her child with the biological father, but they divorced. I think she got custody, but, as in the above case, the child still spent a considerable amount of time with the father.

I don't know as much about the others except that they were or are raising their own children, and they dedicate as much of their lives and time to their children as you would expect any sane parent to do.

I think that would enrich the discussion very much.

I agree! I grew up in an extremely conservative society, so I found polyamory repulsive when I first knew it was even a thing (when I was a strict religious conservative). My thoughts about it have fundamentally changed since, mainly because of getting to know polyamorous people, hearing about their relationships, and realizing I had a lot of misconceptions about polyamory itself and polyamorous people.

It's definitely not for me, but I believe both I and non-monogamous people deserve to have the freedom to decide which relationship arrangement works best for us and also to be listened to instead of judged negatively solely due to our decisions in this regard.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I don't know why there'd be less doubt of paternity in a monogamous relationship. One can just assume that infidelity occurred. Unwanted pregnancy (in general) can happen regardless of system as noted before. Monogamous couples probably have a higher chance of eschewing protection anyway.

Uh.....Maybe because there's mutual trust? In open relationships, uncertainty is the baseline, regardless of whether or not there is trust between partners...because nobody knows for sure. Good lord.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why is monogamy praised and polygamy or open relationships frowned upon?

Am I right when I say that religion has a big part in normalizing monogamy and demonizing other kinds of relationships?

I know, in Christian church I was taught that monogamy was the way because a marriage was a picture of our loyal and singular relationship with God.

Then in my first marriage, I know that I had immense feelings of jealousy and anger when my then wife suggested an open relationship instead of our monogamous one.

So, religion, and unjust possessiveness. These reasons I believe are why monogamy is the norm.

I remember my then wife saying that she felt that monogamous relationships where restrictive and didn't make sense. I just figured she was a whore, but I understand her words and actions from back then a lot better now as the years have passed.

Is monogamy natural? I suppose that's the debate point of the thread.

If you are monogamous, what are your reasons for being so? Are you simply are in a monogamous relationship, or would you not be in a different kind of relationship, such as an open one (e.g. swinger).

I'm currently in a monogamous relationship with my boyfriend. I know that's what he would prefer and I would never suggest to him we change it, for even suggesting that to him I'm sure would bring up feelings of insecurities in our relationship.

But I am no longer opposed to being in an open relationship or something of the sort. I see no good reason why monogamy is so highly praised and open relationships/ polygamy is frowned upon.

I found by personal experience that one woman is more than enough.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, it does.

If a woman is in a relationship with two or more men and becomes pregnant, who is the father?

Why does it have to be one? In some cultures it's the guy who steps up to be the father, entirely regardless of actual paternity.
There's nothing complicated about it. No more complicated than my best friend recently learning her grandma had an affair and her dad isn't really the son of her grandfather (something I've read is being frequently discovered due to the more widespread use of DNA testing).

In open relationships, uncertainty is the baseline, regardless of whether or not there is trust between partners...because nobody knows for sure. Good lord.

Uh, no. Trust, open communication and honesty are paramount mecessities in an open relationship.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Uh, no. Trust, open communication and honesty are paramount mecessities in an open relationship.

Trust, open communication, and honesty are no substitute for paternal confirmation. It doesn't matter how much mutual trust there is if the complexities of the relationships block certainty of fatherhood. That's what I mean.

Why does it have to be one? In some cultures it's the guy who steps up to be the father, entirely regardless of actual paternity.
There's nothing complicated about it. No more complicated than my best friend recently learning her grandma had an affair and her dad isn't really the son of her grandfather (something I've read is being frequently discovered due to the more widespread use of DNA testing).

I think I speak for a lot of men when I say that I have zero interest in raising a child that isn't mine. I'm sure it's convenient for the mother, but it's just not something many would jump at the chance to. You also bring up an interesting point about grandma being unfaithful and hiding it from her husband and family. The obvious kernel of understanding to draw is that she knew or feared that her husband would have left her if he knew the truth. That is obviously far less than an ideal set of circumstances, and just reinforces the usefulness of staying faithful to one person.

 

[Circumradiant]

Uh.....Maybe because there's mutual trust? In open relationships, uncertainty is the baseline, regardless of whether or not there is trust between partners...because nobody knows for sure. Good lord.

But trust isn't exclusive to a specific dynamic and it can be broken. I'm saying this as a monogamous person. I still don't get why blood relation is that important unless you're speaking of child support.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

But trust isn't exclusive to a specific dynamic and it can be broken. I'm saying this as a monogamous person.

I'm attempting to explain why monogamous relationships suffer less from paternal uncertainty, not why they are immune from it. And for the life of me, I don't understand why this is so hard to communicate or understand.

I still don't get why blood relation is that important unless you're speaking of child support.

I think you do understand.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The obvious kernel of understanding to draw is that she knew or feared that her husband would have left her if he knew the truth. That is obviously far less than an ideal set of circumstances, and just reinforces the usefulness of staying faithful to one person.

I don't know that, neither do you. The two in question are dead. It may be possible they just hit a rough spot.

I think I speak for a lot of men when I say that I have zero interest in raising a child that isn't mine.

And yet a lot of guys will. My brother raised four girls who were not biologically his, but he was still thier dad. To some guys it suddenly got bigger than them and what they have is a child who needs raised and so they rise to the occasion.
Gabriel Iglesias himself has brought up his own raising step son in his comedy.
To a lot of guys the child is innocent and it does no good to take it out on a child who had no say or choice in the matter.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But trust isn't exclusive to a specific dynamic and it can be broken. I'm saying this as a monogamous person. I still don't get why blood relation is that important unless you're speaking of child support.

My siblings, I'm technically a half-sibling to them and them to me but we've ripped off some faces when someone tries to emphasis that and insist and pretend its a term that actually matters or means anything.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm attempting to explain why monogamous relationships suffer less from paternal uncertainty,

Wanna know how many times I've been called the milkman's baby? At times I even wonder because I don't resemble my dad's family, and neither of my parents have been the most honest with eachother.

 

[Circumradiant]

I'm attempting to explain why monogamous relationships suffer less from paternal uncertainty, not why they are immune from it. And for the life of me, I don't understand why this is so hard to communicate or understand.

I think you do understand.

Hmm, okay, but people might disagree with your views.

And no, I don't understand why biological paternity is a huge issue... do you feel jealousy when thinking of raising somebody else's child?
l know men who have no issue with this, but it really depends on the person.
I'm not a cis guy, so I guess I have a different viewpoint on this.

 

[Circumradiant]

My siblings, I'm technically a half-sibling to them and them to me but we've ripped off some faces when someone tries to emphasis that and insist and pretend its a term that actually matters or means anything.

Same situation here. Us 3 have different fathers. I never call them my half-siblings, and it's weird to do so.