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Why not God AND Science?
- Thread starter Songofmorning
- Start date
Apparently not.Steve said:
AH Steve! don't say that!Steve said:
You have put your foot right in it! (as I have found to my cost in the past) - you will have the scientists coming down on you like a ton of bricks.I must say I have learned to respect, and understand their point of view (That is one of the changes in the way I think that has occurred since being on this forum). To say 'God did it' is a cop - out, which I guess is fair comment.
Nonetheless, I do believe in God, but I have given up trying to understand the beginning of the world (I cannot understand strings and quantum physics), so I guess I will just have to say "I don't know how the whole thing started, and I don't suppose I ever will.
gnostic
The Lost One
That's not example to prove God's existence, just a perspective that the universe may require some higher intelligence. A perspective that may or may not be true.
Science said that there may be a beginning, but it never said it never said the cause required help from the higher being.
As to origin of life, higher intelligence is not required. Have you a single cell? Or that of conception of human life?
Over time, the life within the fertilised egg, would divide and multiply, creating more cells, until it developed into an embryo, and then into fetus after the 8 weeks from conception.
Does that prove of God's existence or some intelligent being directing a new life within the woman's womb? No. I just see nature taking its natural course. Each of cell have a intelligence of its own, to self-create. No, maybe "intelligence" is the wrong word to use; "instinct" would be more precise. Cells have a way to reproduce more cells from growth and development.
If humans are so superior to other animals, then why do we reproduce in the same way as other mammals?
Why aren't each of us born or created in the same way as Adam, from the dirt or clay of earth? Or like the way as Eve from Adam's rib?
Science said that there may be a beginning, but it never said it never said the cause required help from the higher being.
As to origin of life, higher intelligence is not required. Have you a single cell? Or that of conception of human life?
Over time, the life within the fertilised egg, would divide and multiply, creating more cells, until it developed into an embryo, and then into fetus after the 8 weeks from conception.
Does that prove of God's existence or some intelligent being directing a new life within the woman's womb? No. I just see nature taking its natural course. Each of cell have a intelligence of its own, to self-create. No, maybe "intelligence" is the wrong word to use; "instinct" would be more precise. Cells have a way to reproduce more cells from growth and development.
If humans are so superior to other animals, then why do we reproduce in the same way as other mammals?
Why aren't each of us born or created in the same way as Adam, from the dirt or clay of earth? Or like the way as Eve from Adam's rib?
Cowrebellion
New Member
How does real science prove god? I believe that currently science cannot disprove god, but given time it will, but it will be ignored. Mathematical science has a way of proving damn near everything.
hopefulboy
Member
holy quran says in ayat"noor " that persian and roman people will have battles in the lowest land(that refers to the lands beside the dead sea ).quran predicted this 7 years befor the time that battle happened.its no doubt and it is a prediction and a scientific sign.history declares that the battle between iran and roman happend beside the dead sea and in our age technology clinchs that the lowest land on the earth is there.... http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=2445719
hopefulboy
Member
another qurans miracle:
و انزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتی »
in soore طهand the ayat53 quran says that we sent waters from the sky and we grow couples of plants and ...
now scientists are agreed with this sentences and its a great miracle......
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=2445726
و انزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتی »
in soore طهand the ayat53 quran says that we sent waters from the sky and we grow couples of plants and ...
now scientists are agreed with this sentences and its a great miracle......
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=2445726
hopefulboy
Member
another fantastic miracles:
holy quran says that we created the" world in 6 eras "(ages) in sooreh ق سوره and ayat 38
and on the other side it says that we created "the earth" in 2 eras and now scientists are saying that
life time of earth is 4.5 milliard years and life time of the whole world is 13.5 milliard years
so calculate these numbers and u will find that: 6 eras/2 eras =3 and 13.5 mill years/4.5 miil years=3
GOD HAVE MERCY ON US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
holy quran says that we created the" world in 6 eras "(ages) in sooreh ق سوره and ayat 38
and on the other side it says that we created "the earth" in 2 eras and now scientists are saying that
life time of earth is 4.5 milliard years and life time of the whole world is 13.5 milliard years
so calculate these numbers and u will find that: 6 eras/2 eras =3 and 13.5 mill years/4.5 miil years=3
GOD HAVE MERCY ON US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hopefulboy
Member
NASA HAD A RESEARCH AND PICTURED A BANG IN YEAR 2000
hopefulboy
Member
the word "heaven" is used 77 times in quran and the word hell is used 77 times
world=115 --------- hereafter=115
plant=26------------tree=26
and ....
world=115 --------- hereafter=115
plant=26------------tree=26
and ....
hopefulboy
Member
SO god proves science and science proves god
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
It's all in my signature below.....:yes:
ninerbuff
godless wonder
There are 3 outs in baseball and 3 points on a field goal. This proves that sports is true religion!
Better yet, there are 7 holes in a Ritz cracker, and 7 is a lucky number so this proves that eating Ritz crackers make you lucky.
hopefulboy
Member
ok funny man,can u make sentences like quran that are complete and singular and at the same time set the words in a way that numbers of similar words become the same?There are 3 outs in baseball and 3 points on a field goal. This proves that sports is true religion!
Better yet, there are 7 holes in a Ritz cracker, and 7 is a lucky number so this proves that eating Ritz crackers make you lucky.
and also qurans sentences are amazingly symphonic
no doubt that u and all ur friends can not make even 1 ayat .
on the other hand i think if u knew the meanings of these numbers:9 , 11 , 13 , 33 ,72 ,666 , 999 , .... then u made a circus
hopefulboy
Member
GEOIDAL FORM OF THE WORLD 30- He made the earth egg-shaped.
79-The Snatchers, 30
The Arabic word “dahw” means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg. The above verse was also interpreted to refer to the shaping of the earth in the form of an ostrich egg. Prof. Dr. Suleyman Atefl, former head of Religious Affairs in Turkey, gives the following definition of the word, based on the famous Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.” The word “dahw” had also been defined as a game played with walnuts. Derived from the same stem, the word “medahi” referred to round stones. Despite the meaning of rotundity concealed in words derived from the word “dahw” there have been translators for whom a spherical earth was difficult to conceive, who had to translate it as “to spread out.” The actual shape of the earth does have the shape of an ostrich egg. Thus the shape of the earth is spheroid with depressions at the poles. The exact figure of the earth which had posed a problem throughout history was established by the Quran.
Even the books written a few centuries after the descent of the Quran likened the shape of the earth to a tray. Beliefs according to which the earth rested on the horns of an ox or was supported by a fish reigned over mentalities in the Arabic peninsula and many believed that earthquakes occurred when the fish down below waved its tail. The Prophet had no ocean-going ship to cross the earth from one extremity to the other, that would have supplied him with evidence proving the spheroid shape of the earth, nor had he a spacecraft from which he could have had an overall view of our world that would have provided him a photographic image of it, as he was not equipped with a camera. Our knowledge of the sphericity of the earth, which seems to us as an established fact, was then beyond the comprehension and imagination of the majority. Therefore, the Quran’s statement to this effect failed to be grasped. Men believed that the verse referred to the plenitude of the earth, ignoring the sense of rotundity.
Thus, at a time when most of the people believed in the shape of earth’s figure as a tray supported by an ox or fish, the Quran had beautifully described its actual shape. The fact that ostriches abounded in the Arabian Peninsula at the time must have permitted those who inquired into this mystery to hold an ostrich egg in their hands and examine it. The geoidal form is a gentle indication of this. The subtlety of the Quran’s expressions provides men with evidence.
174- O people! Verily there has come to you an infallible proof from your Lord. We have sent unto you a manifest light.
4-The Women, 174
79-The Snatchers, 30
The Arabic word “dahw” means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg. The above verse was also interpreted to refer to the shaping of the earth in the form of an ostrich egg. Prof. Dr. Suleyman Atefl, former head of Religious Affairs in Turkey, gives the following definition of the word, based on the famous Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.” The word “dahw” had also been defined as a game played with walnuts. Derived from the same stem, the word “medahi” referred to round stones. Despite the meaning of rotundity concealed in words derived from the word “dahw” there have been translators for whom a spherical earth was difficult to conceive, who had to translate it as “to spread out.” The actual shape of the earth does have the shape of an ostrich egg. Thus the shape of the earth is spheroid with depressions at the poles. The exact figure of the earth which had posed a problem throughout history was established by the Quran.
Even the books written a few centuries after the descent of the Quran likened the shape of the earth to a tray. Beliefs according to which the earth rested on the horns of an ox or was supported by a fish reigned over mentalities in the Arabic peninsula and many believed that earthquakes occurred when the fish down below waved its tail. The Prophet had no ocean-going ship to cross the earth from one extremity to the other, that would have supplied him with evidence proving the spheroid shape of the earth, nor had he a spacecraft from which he could have had an overall view of our world that would have provided him a photographic image of it, as he was not equipped with a camera. Our knowledge of the sphericity of the earth, which seems to us as an established fact, was then beyond the comprehension and imagination of the majority. Therefore, the Quran’s statement to this effect failed to be grasped. Men believed that the verse referred to the plenitude of the earth, ignoring the sense of rotundity.
Thus, at a time when most of the people believed in the shape of earth’s figure as a tray supported by an ox or fish, the Quran had beautifully described its actual shape. The fact that ostriches abounded in the Arabian Peninsula at the time must have permitted those who inquired into this mystery to hold an ostrich egg in their hands and examine it. The geoidal form is a gentle indication of this. The subtlety of the Quran’s expressions provides men with evidence.
174- O people! Verily there has come to you an infallible proof from your Lord. We have sent unto you a manifest light.
4-The Women, 174
hopefulboy
Member
CLOUDS AND THE PROCESS OF RAIN 43- Do not you see that God drives the clouds, then joins them together, then piles them on each other, then you see the rain comes forth from between them. And He sends down hail from the sky, where there are mountains of it. And strikes those with it whom He will and diverts it from whomever He wills. The vivid flash of its lightning nearly blinds the sight.
24-The Light, 43
Water is life. The greater portion of water that is the basic need for the living beings on earth is in continuous motion and transformation. The uninterrupted sequence of these successive transformations is referred to as cycling. Water is always present in the air. It goes without saying that this state of water differs from its state in the seas and rivers. The formation of clouds by water in the state of vapor, the transformation of these clouds into rainwater and their falling upon the earth as precipitation are the result of God’s impeccable cycling system. More than 1400 years ago, the Quran began to draw our attention to the facts that today can be established only by the help of satellites. Scientists studied types of clouds and established that they were the consequence of well-designed systems and stages. Meteorologists examined the cumulonimbus clouds. The stages they described tallied with the process described in the sura The Light, verse 43.
1- Clouds move thanks to winds: The fact that the wind is the primary cause in the process of the formation of clouds that generates rain is depicted in the sura, The Romans, verse 46 (In the previous chapter, we saw the role played by wind in the formation of clouds).
2- Joining: Then the small clouds combine to form a single large cloud.
3- Piles them on each other: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the center of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere where drops of water and hail formulate. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.
GENIUS OF A MAN?
Meteorologists have acquired what they know about the formation, structure and function of clouds only in recent years by the help of satellites, computers and balloons. It is significant to read about the formation of clouds in the Quran. Today’s data are obtained through the use of instruments and satellites that have a panoramic view of clouds from above, otherwise, it would be impossible for men living on the surface of the earth to have an insight into the updraft in the clouds during their formation and the precipitation emerging from this cloud expanding vertically.
In the verse above, the simile of “mountain masses” is an apt one, since the cumulonimbus rain clouds at an altitude of 5-6 km present a formation like a mountain.
While the verse reveals knowledge unavailable at the time of the Prophet, there is no mention whatsoever of the misconceptions of the time. Up until the 1600s the western world was dominated by the meteorological lore of ancient Greece, itself a hotchpotch of correct and wrong data. It was believed that the atmosphere was made up of two different types of vapor, namely the dry and the moist; that thunder was the outcome of the collision of dry clouds with their neighbors, and that the flash of lighting was produced by the kindling of the dry vapor. In the verse in question no such false information has been provided, while a description is made of the flash of lightning, along with the downfall of rain and hailstones, establishing a link between them. The lightning flash in atmospheric electricity is the total observed luminous phenomena accompanying a lightning discharge, which is a series of electric processes by which change is transferred within the atmosphere along a channel of high ion density between electric charge centers of opposite sign. The water droplets within the clouds are a source of electricity. The water droplets falling down as a result of gravitation break down into yet smaller droplets with positively charged electricity while the surrounding atmosphere is negatively charged. The electric charge of droplets increases at each division into smaller units. Along with the emergence of the electrical charge as a consequence of disintegration of water droplets, the ice crystals at the upper portion of the cloud gain positive electricity charge, thus separating from the atmosphere with negative charge and increasing the electrical charge of the cloud. This process results in an electric arc, i.e., a flash of light. The verse draws attention to the connection of the precipitation with the flash of lightning, leaving out the wrong information that attributes this process to the kindling of clouds. Describing the meteorological process that creates rain accurately, while eliminating the false ideas predominant at the time successfully, cannot be explained as pure coincidence or the genius of a man.
12- It is He who shows you the lightning for fear and hope,
and raises heavy clouds.
13-The Thunder, 12
24-The Light, 43
Water is life. The greater portion of water that is the basic need for the living beings on earth is in continuous motion and transformation. The uninterrupted sequence of these successive transformations is referred to as cycling. Water is always present in the air. It goes without saying that this state of water differs from its state in the seas and rivers. The formation of clouds by water in the state of vapor, the transformation of these clouds into rainwater and their falling upon the earth as precipitation are the result of God’s impeccable cycling system. More than 1400 years ago, the Quran began to draw our attention to the facts that today can be established only by the help of satellites. Scientists studied types of clouds and established that they were the consequence of well-designed systems and stages. Meteorologists examined the cumulonimbus clouds. The stages they described tallied with the process described in the sura The Light, verse 43.
1- Clouds move thanks to winds: The fact that the wind is the primary cause in the process of the formation of clouds that generates rain is depicted in the sura, The Romans, verse 46 (In the previous chapter, we saw the role played by wind in the formation of clouds).
2- Joining: Then the small clouds combine to form a single large cloud.
3- Piles them on each other: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the center of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere where drops of water and hail formulate. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.
GENIUS OF A MAN?
Meteorologists have acquired what they know about the formation, structure and function of clouds only in recent years by the help of satellites, computers and balloons. It is significant to read about the formation of clouds in the Quran. Today’s data are obtained through the use of instruments and satellites that have a panoramic view of clouds from above, otherwise, it would be impossible for men living on the surface of the earth to have an insight into the updraft in the clouds during their formation and the precipitation emerging from this cloud expanding vertically.
In the verse above, the simile of “mountain masses” is an apt one, since the cumulonimbus rain clouds at an altitude of 5-6 km present a formation like a mountain.
While the verse reveals knowledge unavailable at the time of the Prophet, there is no mention whatsoever of the misconceptions of the time. Up until the 1600s the western world was dominated by the meteorological lore of ancient Greece, itself a hotchpotch of correct and wrong data. It was believed that the atmosphere was made up of two different types of vapor, namely the dry and the moist; that thunder was the outcome of the collision of dry clouds with their neighbors, and that the flash of lighting was produced by the kindling of the dry vapor. In the verse in question no such false information has been provided, while a description is made of the flash of lightning, along with the downfall of rain and hailstones, establishing a link between them. The lightning flash in atmospheric electricity is the total observed luminous phenomena accompanying a lightning discharge, which is a series of electric processes by which change is transferred within the atmosphere along a channel of high ion density between electric charge centers of opposite sign. The water droplets within the clouds are a source of electricity. The water droplets falling down as a result of gravitation break down into yet smaller droplets with positively charged electricity while the surrounding atmosphere is negatively charged. The electric charge of droplets increases at each division into smaller units. Along with the emergence of the electrical charge as a consequence of disintegration of water droplets, the ice crystals at the upper portion of the cloud gain positive electricity charge, thus separating from the atmosphere with negative charge and increasing the electrical charge of the cloud. This process results in an electric arc, i.e., a flash of light. The verse draws attention to the connection of the precipitation with the flash of lightning, leaving out the wrong information that attributes this process to the kindling of clouds. Describing the meteorological process that creates rain accurately, while eliminating the false ideas predominant at the time successfully, cannot be explained as pure coincidence or the genius of a man.
12- It is He who shows you the lightning for fear and hope,
and raises heavy clouds.
13-The Thunder, 12