Why One God

[VoidCat]

Indeed.

That difficulty in mutual understanding seems to be very sincere from the Muslim side, and I think that the reason why is fairly clear.

Islam is a doctrine that uses a very specific conception of deity and shapes itself accordingly.

As one would reasonably expect, Islam (like most or all doctrines) proposes certain values and goals to be considered as worthy and disregards, neglects or opposes others that might be favored by competing doctrines. Which is fair enough, of course.

But it is just as reasonable to point out the (fairly obvious) fact that the end result are specific flavors of doctrine and deity that don't converge all that much with others.

More to the point, that lack of convergence is a big deal for Muslims. The contrast with Hinduism is very enlightening and, perhaps, a bit confusing or even disturbing for those who are not used to the freedom of interpretation that Hinduism offers.

At the end of the day, the role, needs and limitations that Muslims expect their god to have are simply not very similar to those of other doctrines and beliefs.

It is only a problem because many people fail to expect that to be the real situation.

I did feel our different understandings of deity was the problem in the conversation which is why the two of us were flabbergasted by each other talking about deities. I've noticed that happens a lot when talking to muslims is that our views on deity often clash and I don't typically know how to explain how I view my gods when our understandings are so different even with just the defination of deity. I can sorta get where they are coming when it comes to understanding their god. But sometimes it seems so foreign to my way of thinking. And my way of thinking is just as foreign to them. Makes trying to have a conversation on deities and religion very difficult as I have to step outside of my own viewpoint and try to figure out theirs and theirs typically is a view so different from my own it often confuses me. Then I have to figure out how to explain mine in a way that makes sense and keeping in mind possible questions that would pop up that I don't consider often due to the fact such questions don't tend to often have a place or importance in my thinking...

It gets really difficult talking about religion with Muslims. This is also a problem I run into with Christians as well but I used to be a christian I've never been a muslim. So it's easier trying to do this with Christians but not with Muslims.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Doesn't make sense to me.

I am of the opinion that there is more than One God. The Gods if you will.

This is because as I see it, something as complex as the Universe, with as many functioning and moving parts as it has, would take Many hands to Create; just like a complex open world RPG takes Many programmers to Create.

As things increase in complexity (cars, phones, houses), the number of creators always increases.

A Perfect Universe, does not mean we have only One perfect God. (I also don't think the universe is perfect, but that's a seperate issue).

Or another way to put it for @firedragon

1. Gods are Necessary beings for an Ordered universe and are Creators
2. To create, the creators have to have a will.
3. If there are two or more Gods there has to be two or more different wills.
4. Two or more wills bring about cooperation, and increase the overall complexity of the finished product (much like our cosmos)
5. The Gods are Many

It's occurred to me that most of the classical arguments for God, if their reasoning were applied without monotheistic blinders on, are more arguments for at least one thing consistent with God, not arguments for a single god (as opposed to any sort of polytheism).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No there's only Three and they are all One.

I like the "three": fun and arbitrary.

I don't understand why you need a bunch of God's unless you have puny gods who aren't too bright.

FWIW, arguments like the Problem of Evil suggest that a monotheistic god is a puny god who isn't too bright.

 

[The Hammer]

Talk about anthropomorphism!..go figure

Yeah, I'm more apt to think they would be cooperative.

Just like humans can sit on committees and work out their issues jointly, even through disagreements. If the Gods or Gid created us, and we can cooperate with others; why not the Gods?

 

[The Hammer]

Does that mean that whenever something new and complex is added to the world, there is new god assigned to that field? Who are the gods of cars and phones?

I could see their being a "News media" God, and a God of machinery.

 

[The Hammer]

No there's only Three and they are all One.
I don't understand why you need a bunch of God's unless you have puny gods who aren't too bright.

There are three for sure. And they work together as One, but they are not One thing. Kind of like how everything in the forums from staff is handled by consensus, so do the Deities operate.

I don't understand why you need One all encompassing and powerful Singular deity, unless you are specifically looking for an authoritarian leader, and not something known for cooperation and consensus (better Values imo).

 

[metis]

I don't assume that there is only one god, as exactly how could I tell for sure?

 

[The Hammer]

I don't assume that there is only one god, as exactly how could I tell for sure?

Same. This is why I err towards polytheism. Everyone experiences the Gods differently, who is to say they aren't different Gods. Especially considering the Hallmark of encountering any Deity is the marker of ineffability.

 

[Heyo]

I could see their being a "News media" God, and a God of machinery.

Creative, living mythology, I like it. Better than fitting things to the old gods (news media to Loki, God of Lies and cars to the dwarfs (though they are not gods and there are already multiple of them) or Hepheastos, if you have a multi cultural pantheon).

 

[LuisDantas]

There are three for sure. And they work together as One, but they are not One thing. Kind of like how everything in the forums from staff is handled by consensus, so do the Deities operate.

I don't understand why you need One all encompassing and powerful Singular deity, unless you are specifically looking for an authoritarian leader, and not something known for cooperation and consensus (better Values imo).

Or as I like to put it: why would a supremely transcendent god have any trouble manifesting as three-in-one? And why would humans have any reason to expect to know or understand any reasons that said deity might have for or against doing just that?

I don't think that it is logically coherent to claim belief in the God of Abraham and somehow also claim certainty that it could not possibly have a triple nature.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I don't assume that there is only one god, as exactly how could I tell for sure?

By what he told us about reality.

 

[firedragon]

This is because as I see it, something as complex as the Universe, with as many functioning and moving parts as it has, would take Many hands to Create; just like a complex open world RPG takes Many programmers to Create.

So one God is not capable enough? How do you know that? Could you please explain?

 

[The Hammer]

So one God is not capable enough? How do you know that? Could you please explain?

Too much variability for there to be only One Artist. Same as I've said from the get go.

 

[The Hammer]

By what he told us about reality.

How did He tell you?

 

[firedragon]

Too much variability for there to be only One Artist. Same as I've said from the get go.

How do you know it's too much for God?

 

[millerdog]

Doesn't make sense to me.

I am of the opinion that there is more than One God. The Gods if you will.

This is because as I see it, something as complex as the Universe, with as many functioning and moving parts as it has, would take Many hands to Create; just like a complex open world RPG takes Many programmers to Create.

As things increase in complexity (cars, phones, houses), the number of creators always increases.

A Perfect Universe, does not mean we have only One perfect God. (I also don't think the universe is perfect, but that's a seperate issue).

Or another way to put it for @firedragon

1. Gods are Necessary beings for an Ordered universe and are Creators
2. To create, the creators have to have a will.
3. If there are two or more Gods there has to be two or more different wills.
4. Two or more wills bring about cooperation, and increase the overall complexity of the finished product (much like our cosmos)
5. The Gods are Many

Lots of commonalities and I only know One

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

FWIW, arguments like the Problem of Evil suggest that a monotheistic god is a puny god who isn't too bright.

The Problem of Evil is more a challenging question than an argument.

 

[The Hammer]

How do you know it's too much for God?

How do you know it's not?

Occam's razor reports the simplest answer is typically correct. The universe being shaped and molded by many hands, is the easier explanation given it's multifaceted nature, contradictions, and complexity.

 

[The Hammer]

Lots of commonalities and I only know One

Welp. That's good for you then.

I've certainly had several deities appear for me. Not least of all Odin/Wodan. I've also seen the Morrigan. Freya, Thor, Freyr and Loki have all had their appearances as well.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am of the opinion that there is more than One God. The Gods if you will.

Any of them named Ockham?

This is because as I see it, something as complex as the Universe, with as many functioning and moving parts as it has, would take Many hands to Create; ...

... no doubt a skillfully constructed conclusion made after carefully calibrating the Capacity per Hand (CPH) of your Typical Deity (TD).

Would you mind sharing your data?