Why reject atheism?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Intrinsic value :- Value based on properties that inherently exist in that object
Extrinsic value :- Value based on the object's utility to another.

IMO, the sort of value given to people under theistic belief systems (i.e. the kind that God bestowed according to his whim and can be revoked if God sees fit to do so) is extrinsic.

 

[sayak83]

For me, I start axiomatically with “I value myself” and then get rather easily from there to “I should value others.”

There are other approaches to the question; an ethicist would probably do a better job of laying them out.

Does it follow? If the reason you value yourself is utilitarian, then the latter generalization may fail.

 

[sayak83]

IMO, the sort of value given to people under theistic belief systems (i.e. the kind that God bestowed according to his whim and can be revoked if God sees fit to do so) is extrinsic.

Yes. Unless one is a monist (yours truly).

 

[Faithofchristian]

Umm no in each case.
OT laws are from 900 BCE, while Babylonian laws are >2000 BCE as established by historians. Try again.
Roman laws did not come from Jewish laws. They came from Greeks, and Greeks developed them independently. Heard of Plato, Aristotle, themistocles? Ring any bells? Ding Ding?

US laws come from British laws that are based on turn on Rome. There is not a single non-ceremonial law in the OT with modern usage that can't be found thousands of years before in Egypt and Babylonian law codes.

The laws of God were given about 2000 years before Babylon came into existence.

It's evidence that you can not handle the fact the Americans came here to break away from Great Britain, to establish their own way of life and from the laws of Great Britain, this is way there was a war between the American people and Great Britain.
Now why would the American people fight against Great Britain in a war to break away from the laws of Great Britain, but yet want to keep the laws and things of Great Britain.
You can't be serious. Go Figure

 

[sayak83]

The laws of God were given about 2000 years before Babylon came into existence.

It's evidence that you can not handle the fact the Americans came here to break away from Great Britain, to establish their own way of life and from the laws of Great Britain, this is way there was a war between the American people and Great Britain.
Now why would the American people fight against Great Britain in a war, but yet want to keep the laws and things of Great Britain.
You can't be serious. Go Figure

They did keep the same laws.
Origins of Common Law – Common Law
And you are wrong about OT laws timing.
The Code of Ur-Nammu: When Ancient Sumerians Laid Down the Law, Everyone Obeyed


Mosaic authorship - Wikipedia

 

[ChristineM]

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

The vast majority of people are atheists where all gods other than the particular god/gods they believe are concerned.

I've taken it a bit further by adding "any" between the words "of god"

Having said that i am not devoid of belief as some god believers insist, i believe in love for example, at one time associated with the god Aphrodite.

And i have been known to cuss Anoia (the small goddess of things that get stuck in drawers)

 

[shunyadragon]

Not white isn't necessarily black and with atheism it literally means not theism.

Actually incomplete and incorrect, categorization error. Literally no, because there are many alternatives that are not theism. Not Theism isn't necessarily atheism.

You confirmed my point.

Again so what?!?!!?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

God's laws was way before Babylonia laws came to be, at least about 2000 years.

As for Rome, God's laws were at least 2500 years before Rome came to be.

Oh really, you say Western laws come from Rome, But yet, we find the ten commandments law of God's in and around in the Western society. Go Figure

The people who came here back, came and establish God's ten commandments law. This is why you will find in the Western society, God's ten commandment law.

By the way, when people came here, the only book they had, to learn to read and write and spell words by was the bible, they didn't have schools back then, so they would learn to read and write and spell words form the bible.

They werent gods laws. They were jewish and roman (and greek and...) laws. All what we know of christianity is from The Church before the east and west split. If there were such thing as gods laws, it would be judaism not christianity. The trinity didnt exist before Romanism and jesus taught jewish teachings.

"Gods law" in society was a roman thing not a jesus thing. The apostles went out to "save the world" and many non christians god killed after christianity was taken as the head religion in rome. Its all in our nations capitol here in the US. Its sketched in our supreme courts architect and buildings engraved in Roman religious Art. We are all Roman in culture in relationship to christianity not jewish. You can litterly see Rome and The Church influence and history that has nothing to do with judaism nor jesus view of god, which is the jewish view not the trinitarian and early church view.

That and to follow christ teachings is to follow The Torah as gods word not the apostles recordint christs words. Christ said go directly to the father. When you see him, you see the father not the father as himself. Its all about the father, the creator himself. When jesus died his "spirit" is the one who brings people to his father. When jesus was alive, he Showed the way to the father and being a vessel of the way said that if you come through him (know Moses laws restated by christ) you know the father and by following the Father, Not christ, you are saved.

Rome brought a lot with them as what we know christianity today. Very different than christianity then. Id assume to know more about what christ taught is to know more a out judaism not the apostles. Its gods words not christ, christ was pointing to. Jesus/Word/vechicle to know gods laws of Moses. But to know god is to do what jesus did talk to him directly. When you follow jesus you are following his interpretation of Moses laws. If you follow Moses laws, you follow gods.

Its more: god-moses-christ-apostles-church-reformation-today (if I got that simple enough) Yall dont even follow The Torah only christs interpretation of it. I can see if judaism accepted the apostles teachings, than christians have a point. Since they dont its not jewish its all a roman, greek, reconstruction of the jewish faith. Not christ teachings but the apostles and the church thereafter far into the last roman empore.

Christians have so many filters that I can see how they can follow jesus before the father. But thats not what jesus taught.

I will come back. I have this all in my art history book. Christianitys origin and history is something else. Also, the history doesnt involve god; it doesnt say its gods history. Its Roman history. I mean, there wasnt one god until later later BC if that. We, eureope, where polytheists.

Anyway, to be continued

 

[Altfish]

It's evidence that you can not handle the fact the Americans came here to break away from Great Britain, to establish their own way of life and from the laws of Great Britain, this is way there was a war between the American people and Great Britain.
Now why would the American people fight against Great Britain in a war to break away from the laws of Great Britain, but yet want to keep the laws and things of Great Britain.
You can't be serious. Go Figure

Good grief, you had better re-read your history 101.
Religion was one of the main reasons people left the UK because of (at the time) our restrictive religious laws. Basically, if you weren't CofE you were in trouble.
So that is why the US now has a rapidly receding Freedom from and freedom of religion laws in their constitution.
The War of Independence was fought for...the clues in the name!! Can you imaging the US being subservient to GB in the 21st Century.

 

[Faithofchristian]

They werent gods laws. They were jewish and roman (and greek and...) laws. All what we know of christianity is from The Church before the east and west split. If there were such thing as gods laws, it would be judaism not christianity. The trinity didnt exist before Romanism and jesus taught jewish teachings.

"Gods law" in society was a roman thing not a jesus thing. The apostles went out to "save the world" and many non christians god killed after christianity was taken as the head religion in rome. Its all in our nations capitol here in the US. Its sketched in our supreme courts architect and buildings engraved in Roman religious Art. We are all Roman in culture in relationship to christianity not jewish. You can litterly see Rome and The Church influence and history that has nothing to do with judaism nor jesus view of god, which is the jewish view not the trinitarian and early church view.

That and to follow christ teachings is to follow The Torah as gods word not the apostles recordint christs words. Christ said go directly to the father. When you see him, you see the father not the father as himself. Its all about the father, the creator himself. When jesus died his "spirit" is the one who brings people to his father. When jesus was alive, he Showed the way to the father and being a vessel of the way said that if you come through him (know Moses laws restated by christ) you know the father and by following the Father, Not christ, you are saved.

Rome brought a lot with them as what we know christianity today. Very different than christianity then. Id assume to know more about what christ taught is to know more a out judaism not the apostles. Its gods words not christ, christ was pointing to. Jesus/Word/vechicle to know gods laws of Moses. But to know god is to do what jesus did talk to him directly. When you follow jesus you are following his interpretation of Moses laws. If you follow Moses laws, you follow gods.

Its more: god-moses-christ-apostles-church-reformation-today (if I got that simple enough) Yall dont even follow The Torah only christs interpretation of it. I can see if judaism accepted the apostles teachings, than christians have a point. Since they dont its not jewish its all a roman, greek, reconstruction of the jewish faith. Not christ teachings but the apostles and the church thereafter far into the last roman empore.

Christians have so many filters that I can see how they can follow jesus before the father. But thats not what jesus taught.

I will come back. I have this all in my art history book. Christianitys origin and history is something else. Also, the history doesnt involve god; it doesnt say its gods history. Its Roman history. I mean, there wasnt one god until later later BC if that. We, eureope, where polytheists.

Anyway, to be continued

As to where do you think, Christianity came from if not from Israel. You do know the first Christian were of Israel. The disciples were Jews of Israel, and the disciples were first to be called Christians.

So why do you suppose Christians and Israel has such close ties to each other.
Maybe it's because Christians are one of those 10 tribes of Israel ?

In case you do not know, that in Israel there are only two tribes left in Israel,
So where do you suppose some of those 10 tribes went to in the world ?

Look Israel of it's self, wanted to keep the laws of Moses, But the other 10 tribes, accepted Christ as their Messiah that was prophesized to come, so they pick up the name Christ, and establish the name Christian, to establish themselves as the followers of Christ.
So now in the world you have Christians. Who proclaim they are the followers of Christ.

 

[Willamena]

What advantage does Atheism have ?

A worldview that is less cluttered; simplicity, in an Occam's sense; self-reliance, needing no crutch to execute one's life. Just to name a few.

 

[idav]

Again so what?!?!!?

About what?

 

[Revoltingest]

Atheism isn't for everyone.
It doesn't offer afterlife, meaning of life, morals or explanations.

I'd compare it to a vacuum in space, but even that has a rich
virtual particle life. Perhaps the null set is a good analogy, eh.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As to where do you think, Christianity came from if not from Israel. You do know the first Christian were of Israel. The disciples were Jews of Israel, and the disciples were first to be called Christians.

So why do you suppose Christians and Israel has such close ties to each other.
Maybe it's because Christians are one of those 10 tribes of Israel ?

In case you do not know, that in Israel there are only two tribes left in Israel,
So where do you suppose some of those 10 tribes went to in the world ?

Look Israel of it's self, wanted to keep the laws of Moses, But the other 10 tribes, accepted Christ as their Messiah that was prophesized to come, so they pick up the name Christ, and establish the name Christian, to establish themselves as the followers of Christ.
So now in the world you have Christians. Who proclaim they are the followers of Christ.

What you know of christianity is not what christianity was then. A lot of christianity you all practice today is from The Church-the apostles on up-Not christ. Jesus was a jew not a roman so things like worshipong christ (before greece, people worship the gods. Later on, when rome took a lot from the greeks, they focused on themselves making the gods with human attributes. The only thing that made gods gods is that they were immortal.) So, things like the trinity is not a jewish nor moses teaching. Its strictly the church.

Are you getting this from the bible?

Also, how is the bible the word of god?

History does not cite any of its past as source of anything divine or from god. The Word of god is christ not the bible. Now that christ has passed way you are depending on the laws and customs of The Church. If you want to follow christ, follow his father. No one in the gosepels worshiped christ. They went to him to know his father. Worshiping a human as god is not a jewish teaching. Jesus never premoted worship of him only god.

Also, you gotta rereas my post. I never said jesus was a roman.

I said

1. Christianity is roman (and greek etc) not jewish
2. Christ taught judaism not worship of himself
3. What we know of christianity is from the romans
4. Our modern ideas, arts, and activities are from the romans

You cant say that the handful of jews during jesus day has somehow spread billions of people to worship christ. Billions of people are roman catholic because a lot of the christian teachings came from Rome. Youre not following Judaism. Youre not Roman Catholic (far as I can tell). Youre not Othorodox Catholic. I assume you believe teachings outside and more modern than the Catholic Church.

If you want to know what christ taught, practice judaism
If you want to worship christ, follow his apostles
If you want to follow god, follow the laws of moses

Outside of church (catholicism) and moses (judaism), what laws are you following thats specifically christian and are not connected to rome at all?

Remember. Jesus followed the laws of moses.

 

[Prestor John]

Inspired by another thread:

Why would anyone reject atheism? If someone does reject atheism, what do they see as being wrong with atheism that they should reject it? How can someone reject the failure to believe in a or any proposed deity?

Please discuss! And remember, this is NOT a venue for debate! Discussion ONLY!

Atheism, at least when embraced by government regimes, account for arguably more deaths than religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why reject atheism?

What advantage does Atheism have ?

Atheists will say, we don't believe in God, But yet atheists are keeping at lease 70% of the laws that were set down by God.
So why not just keep the other 30% ?

Therefore no matter what law or laws Atheism would want, they would still in some way or another would be base off the laws of God.

Of course, you do realize that no atheist thinks that any of these "laws" came from God, right?

Let's say you have it where people can not kill another person.
That's a God base laws "Thou shalt not kill"

Let's say you have it where it's not allowed to steal, That's a God base law, "Thou shalt not steal"
So whatever law or rule that Atheism can come up with will be base off in some form or another off God's law.

So the only reason you don't kill or steal is because of God? Respect for your fellow human beings wouldn't be enough?

Atheism could say, well then we won't have any laws,

How did you get there? Not believing in God doesn't imply throwing away all laws. God is irrelevant to most laws.

Now who exactly would want to live in a lawless Society, Where people could and will kill you, without any consequences of their actions.
People would break into your house and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Atheism could say, I will have a gun that will stop them, Not if your right of ownership of having a gun, is taking away by Liberal democrats.
Remember Liberal democrats wants to eliminate your 2nd amendment right. To own a gun, to protect yourself with. Of course those Liberal democrats politicians will have guns to protect themselves with.
All the while taking away your right to protect yourself and your family with.

Look at Bernie Sanders as a good example, down in FL protesting against guns with those kids, All the while his body guards have guns on themselves.
What's up with all that. Go Figure

But anyway, What Advantage does Atheism have to offer.

Outside of becoming a lawless Society of people ?

Throughout history, most pacifist movements have been religious. Most campaigns to disarm citizens have been based on the divine right of kings, not on atheistic philosophies.

... and if you want an example of a lawless society, check this out:

Münster rebellion - Wikipedia

If can convince a religious person that some command comes from God, you can get them to do anything.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheism isn't for everyone.
It doesn't offer afterlife, meaning of life, morals or explanations.

... in the same sense that "not playing sports" doesn't offer competition or exercise.

You can still have both; you just get them from somewhere other than sports. And the exercise and competition don't have to come as a package.

 

[Revoltingest]

... in the same sense that "not playing sports" doesn't offer competition or exercise.

You can still have both; you just get them from somewhere other than sports. And the exercise and competition don't have to come as a package.

Of course, atheists can still have all the things I listed.
But atheism itself doesn't provide them.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because atheism rejects the essence of goodness and morality.

I guess that is true as you understand things to be.

But it is not really the truth. Far from it really. Not everyone needs or even benefits from associating the conception and perception of goodness and morality with some form of god-belief.

Consider. Christ taught love thy neighbor. But atheism rejects Christ so they must also reject what He taught as He said it came from the God atheists reject. So love one another is rejected by atheists as it came from God. No atheist made such a law.

Not so. God and Jesus are hardly necessary for love and morality to be well understood and actualized.

The same with the Ten Commandments. If you reject God then you must also reject His Commandments. Thou shalt not kill or steal.

It is hard to tell how many of us actually "reject" God. Many of us simply lack the vocation to adopt such a concept.

And as it turns out, the Ten Commandments are of questionable clarity and value to begin with.

But whatever moral wisdom they might turn out to have is, again, not at all exclusive to their believers.

It would be the height of hypocrisy to accept what these Great Teachers taught ignoring that they came from a non existent God as far as atheists are concerned.

Again, that is not at all true. People find wisdom where they will. And moral principles do not need to be found in some form of acceptance of authority, let alone of divine authority.

If anything, authority is a lesser source of morality when compared to rationality and genuine good will.

If you reject a God then you must also reject all the good things the Prophets taught. You can’t have it both ways.

That might perhaps turn out to be true if there was only one God and only one Dharma, which needed it in order to exist.

Reality, however, is entirely different from that scenario.

 

[james bond]

These strawmen have been resolved about ten thousand times already, haven't they?

My point remains.

Ten thousand times is a lie!

But, you're the strawman as in the Wizard of Oz. I get it now.

The point is atheism isn't safe. If you don't believe in Christian persecution, then what about atheist persecution (which is hypocritical but another topic of discussion)? You wouldn't wander around Iran, Libya, Iraq, etc. with this tee on would you?