why reject christianity

[Buddha Dharma]

isn't the crucifixion a way to take all our pain, so that he can cure our pain? i hope it makes sense :-\

No, or there'd be no pain.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Okay, so are you saying then: you don't think a person can hear the premises of Christianity and reject them? You don't think that could happen? It must be the intolerance of some churches? I know people that leave very liberal churches that aren't 'brittle'.

It always strikes me as odd that some Christians seem to think no one could reject the logic of their religion.

This is someone else's thread, so I will keep it short unless xfire replies. I think it is originally a matter of willingness to commit to and live in a particular way rather than a semantics game, yes. I do not think there are supposed to be tests like "Do you know where you will go when you die?" and "How many persons in the godhead?"

 

[Nabeel Raza]

Hi,

I'm a muslim and have been taught to respect all religions. In the Quran it also talks about prophet Jesus. And to make the religion a lot easier, do your 5 times prayers and pray to God Allah, and if you want to study it in more detail, than find the khalifas who are appointed people for Islam.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

@Brickjectivity I made a thread for it

 

[blü 2]

isn't the crucifixion a way to take all our pain, so that he can cure our pain? i hope it makes sense :-\

It might be more popular if it actually took away pain.

But the thing I've never understood about the crucifixion is the idea of God sacrificing his son to himself. I mean, one snap of those omnipotent fingers and he can achieve anything he likes, so the torture and death of someone, let alone the instigator's own son, seems like revolting Bronze Age barbarism, not something you want in a modern world.

I remember waiting for someone in a church once, and passing the time by looking at the stained glass. Unfortunately for me they were the Stations of the Cross, depicting in vivid and delighting detail flogging, thorning, hammering nails in, hanging in torment, being thrust with a spear, and death. It seemed like a wild grossly indecent celebration of SM, and it crossed my mind how well it fits with the cannibalism expressly at the heart of the Eucharist.

 

[crossfire]

There is something I love about vegetarians. Almost no and somewhat yes. What follows is opinion. Jesus death serves only as an atonement for the gentiles and does not end Jewish sacrifices from what I understand. That being said the key to the sacrifice is a covenant, and the key to the covenant is forgiving one another, not blood. The ancient law states that a sacrifice is used, its blood drained and everyone eats the flesh though not the fat. Upon this code is built the peace of the modern world. For its time it is very progressive, and there is no telling if we will need to fall back on it again someday if everything goes to hell. Hopefully not.

If it for the gentiles, why require the gentiles to conform or accept blood sacrifice as a means to obtain a clear conscience? It doesn't make sense to me, but it might make sense to some.

Despite what the ancient code requires, it is entirely possible to make a covenant and atonement without any blood if all parties are willing. If you forgive me and love me, and if I forgive you and love you then all of our wrongs are atoned for are they not? Why would God stand in the way of such forgiveness? I deduce or guess that the sacrifice means a shared meal but also a treaty, like a marriage. When you partake of communion you drop your vengeance and consider yourself avenged as you have taken blood, and you consider yourself also to be related to everyone else eating and drinking. All offenses are to be dropped as if you are all suddenly related through marriage. The idea is to preserve peace and life, yes.

The red color of the blood is the reason I think why it is central to the code. We all have red blood, and so once some of it is spilled it is enough to consider all offenses paid. Red blood spilled is your own. The red color is emphasized and used to suggest we are all related, so it is used as a powerful unifying symbol. It is family blood after all, and it is our own blood that has been spilled.

I think the word LORD is the word for this covenant for Jews (but cannot say for certain), and Jesus is the name of this covenant for Christians. That is probably a little hard for some people to agree with, but I don't mind telling you what I think. Its not a reverent way of speaking, but I think sometimes speaking irreverently is required.

Like I said, it might make sense to some, but not to me. Your mileage may vary.

So....yes but the death of Jesus does not close the requirement of sacrificing animals for Jews.

Bummer. I guess sacrificing animals is preferable to sacrificing human beings, but not as preferable as no blood sacrifice at all, especially whole burnt offerings. I can only suspect that a god that requires blood sacrifice to be deluded. Again, your mileage may vary.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would it? Why was it necessary?

Christians believe that it was necessary to remove original sin, substitutionary atonement. I do not believe in original sin, so I believe the cross sacrifice was a way to teach us self-denial, not a way to remove all our sins.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah, about that. Only Christians, Muslims and Baha'is believe in Jesus as messiah.

Excuse me? Baha'is do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. We believe Jesus was a Manifestation of God who came to prepare the way for the Messiah. Baha'u'llah was the Messiah.

 

[Trailblazer]

What have I done that warrants eternal destruction?

Nothing, and you won't have it because there is no such thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's sort of like a cloud 9 romance, it's all dreamy at first but then reality sets in over the course of time and the house of cards just falls apart and the rose colored glasses come off.

Especially the part about Jesus coming down from the sky in the clouds and fixing everything that is wrong in the world... Talk about dreamy.

Thank God, I never wore those glasses. I have heard they are hard to take off.

 

[Darrith]

It strikes me as strange that the very chosen people by God, to deliver the Messiah through, i.e., the Jewish nation, did not see Jesus as the Messiah even after he was crucified. And to this day, the Jews still reject Jesus as the Messiah. How ironic?

 

[Brickjectivity]

If it for the gentiles, why require the gentiles to conform or accept blood sacrifice as a means to obtain a clear conscience? It doesn't make sense to me, but it might make sense to some.

All I know about it is Christ extends kiddish to gentiles somehow. I'm not sure whether it requires us to know anything about sacrifice or not. Gentiles do not have a big part in founding the early churches, and we may not have seen the eucharist as a sacrifice or we might have. Probably we did. The explanations about eucharist seem aimed at Jews not at just anybody.

Like I said, it might make sense to some, but not to me. Your mileage may vary.

Ok

Bummer. I guess sacrificing animals is preferable to sacrificing human beings, but not as preferable as no blood sacrifice at all, especially whole burnt offerings. I can only suspect that a god that requires blood sacrifice to be deluded. Again, your mileage may vary.

Why am I being put forward as a champion to defend sacrifice? I am not, and you can suspect whatever you like. Its your soup if you think God requires blood sacrifice. I never said so. I think vengeful and bloody humanity requires blood frequently, and so it is that blood is put into our faces to make us stop and think. That's probably why blood instead of broccoli is used and red instead of green.

 

[Trailblazer]

It strikes me as strange that the very chosen people by God, to deliver the Messiah through, i.e., the Jewish nation, did not see Jesus as the Messiah even after he was crucified. And to this day, the Jews still reject Jesus as the Messiah. How ironic?

Jews rejected Jesus as being the Messiah mostly because Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies in their scriptures... For example:

Isaiah 9:5 For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." 6 To him who increases the authority, and for peace without end, on David's throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to support it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.

The government was not on the shoulders of Jesus and Jesus was not the prince of peace. Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's. Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword.

These prophecies are about the Prophet Baha'u'llah, who was the Messiah and the Return of the Christ Spirit.

 

[syo]

You know, you can look at it another way. Jesus said that God calls those who He wants. So people who do not believe have not rejected God but God has rejected them.

isn't this kind of harsh?

 

[syo]

Why reject Christianity?
Because it is based many times on a literal interpretation of the Bible. Science contradicts the content, as does common sense in many places.

Where it is not based on a literal interpretation one may ask on what basis is authority established? Who said these doctrines are true? Fallible, possibly delusional men?

And then there is an issue at the base of the matter: there is no objective evidence that God exists

this is the scientific way of rejection.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Christians believe that it was necessary to remove original sin, substitutionary atonement. I do not believe in original sin, so I believe the cross sacrifice was a way to teach us self-denial, not a way to remove all our sins.

That is not an answer to the why question. Why could God not have simply got rid of "original sin"?

 

[syo]

from what i understood, people reject christianity because they think it's other unnecessary or a fraud.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

from what i understood, people reject christianity because they think it's other unnecessary or a fraud.

Or from being convinced another worldview is true. Yes?

 

[syo]

Or from being convinced another worldview is true. Yes?

yes, correct.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

These prophecies are about the Prophet Baha'u'llah, who was the Messiah and the Return of the Christ Spirit.

That's interesting. I was actually thinking Muhammad could fit verses with such a political flair better than Jesus as well. Muhammad did at first claim to come to the Jews as their prophet.