Why Religion Won't Go Away

[Agondonter]

I really don't see anything inherently improbable about a theory of multiverses.. It may controversial but there have been some interesting arguments for s has been going on forever.. from the "beginning that hath no beginning":

I don't have a problem with the theory, either, but it doesn't serve as a final answer. Why any "laws"?

With what? Depending on the answer, not necessarily.

Let me restate what said: All religions ARE about answers, but the questions are not always the same.

 

[Riverwolf]

Let me restate what said: All religions ARE about answers, but the questions are not always the same.

Not necessarily.

Many religions are just about day to day life.

Also, remember that I said religious behavior. Religious behavior isn't necessarily tied to actual religions.

 

[YmirGF]

Let me restate what said: All religions ARE about answers, but the questions are not always the same.

The problem with religion, in general, is that they do not supply especially compelling answers.

 

[Agondonter]

The problem with religion, in general, is that they do not supply especially compelling answers.

Compelling enough so that it won't go away.

 

[LuisDantas]

Perhaps, but what do you proffer as your final explanation for the way things are?

That is the quintessencial loaded question. A slightly variation of "which god you believe in".

Why do you expect a final explanation to exist at all?

What do you deduce from your experiencing of the world?

That knowledge is useful, and superstition is dangerous, among many other things.

What beliefs constitute your conceptual frame of reference?

It would take considerable time and effort for me to understand them well enough to capture them at all well with words, but I know that Interdependent origination has a place of high regard among them.

Why are things the way they are?

Due to various combinations of random chance, complex causes, simple causes, and luck of the draw.

But this is another loaded question. You are stating that there is a reason for some nebuluos "way things are" and attempting to frame it as a question.

In practice, the question needs a lot of clarification before it even makes sense.

How do we originate?

What are you calling origination? I must understand your question if I am to answer it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Compelling enough so that it won't go away.

Most often because they are non-answers, but instead catch words that occupy that place and get in the way of actual understanding.

"God" is one of the worst offenders, particularly when presented as a causation.

 

[Agondonter]

In other words, Louis, all you want to do is simply end the discussion with a vacuous 'I don't know' and/or argue that 'chance in the gaps' provides a satisfying answer for the human urge to make sense of the world.

"God" is one of the worst offenders, particularly when presented as a causation."

Such a statement implies that you at least some idea of what it is that atheism denies when it denies God. I'm 99.99% certain that I don't believe in that God either, so that statement, too, is vacuous .

Your non-answers and comments actually do this thread a service by illustrating why religion won't go away.

 

[psychoslice]

Until humans take responsibility for themselves, and stop blaming an imaginary force, religion will never go away.

 

[YmirGF]

Compelling enough so that it won't go away.

Almost like a resistent cancer in the psyche of the human animal. You are correct though because as long as human animals settle for the insipid answers the deluded religions provide the latter will remain live and well. Religion will always be for those who don't want to do the heavy lifting themselves and are content with crumbs of understanding.

 

[LuisDantas]

In other words, Louis, all you want to do is simply end the discussion with a vacuous 'I don't know'

In all fairness, that is exactly as much attention and care as discussions about the existence of God are worth, so yes.

Vacuous concepts are vacuous. My attention and time are limited and deserve better use.

and/or argue that 'chance in the gaps' provides a satisfying answer for the human urge to make sense of the world.

No, that is a matter for the social sciences and philosophy. But not for wasteful efforts to "believe in God".

The concept is not worth believing at all. Belief is acceptable if it "just happens", but it should never be actively pursued.

And in any case it has no explanatory power whatsoever. It is just a matter of style and perception.

Such a statement implies that you at least some idea of what it is that atheism denies when it denies God.

I sure do. Personification, needless attribution, and distraction from the significant matters that we should be addressing in religion and elsewhere.

I'm 99.99% certain that I don't believe in that God either, so that statement, too, is vacuous .

Your non-answers and comments actually do this thread a service by illustrating why religion won't go away.

Because it is bigger than God. As actually most anything is.

Incidentally, cut the silly defiance of nothing already, will you? It is... silly.

 

[Pudding]

Why all religion need to go away?
Who want all religion to go away?

Multiverse theory is the last refuge for atheist?
Why should any atheist take refuge at that multiverse theory? What is the benefit for that?

It's so full of holes that it's not even worth discussing?
Nice, make a claim then said it's not worth discussing about it...

What is that full of holes is about?
It's not worth discussing.
Since the op think it's not worth discussing then that full of holes will be remain in mystery...

 

[Agondonter]

So, understanding concepts should never be actively pursued if it involves the Divine even when the questions asked are beyond the reach of science and it means denying our human nature? That sound pathological.

 

[Agondonter]

Why all religion need to go away?
Who want all religion to go away?

There walk among us those who are so vain as to have a pathological hatred for anything they don't understand.

 

[Demonslayer]

Why all religion need to go away?

It doesn't need to, but it would be nice.

Who want all religion to go away?

Me for one. Religion stinks!

What good does it do in our modern world except for providing some folks a distraction from their ultimate deaths?

That's about the only good I see religion doing these days. For people who can't deal with the idea that they are finite and will one day die, religion provides them with a Land of Make-Believe where they will go and frolic around for eternity in bliss after they die.

Other than that...what good does religion do today? Don't say "charity" because the non-religious give just as much to charity as the religious. What else? Most of what I see is ugly...protesting gay people, bombing infidels, claiming non-believers will burn in hell, etc. What else good comes from religion?

 

[Agondonter]

Me: Such a statement implies that you at least some idea of what it is that atheism denies when it denies God.
Luis: I sure do. Personification, needless attribution, and distraction from the significant matters that we should be addressing in religion and elsewhere.

How can you address "significant matters" if you don't know what they are or don't have understanding concepts? Religion won't go away because it addresses issues and answers questions science can't. In post #8, Walter said, "At some point in the future science and religion will marry. It won't be easy but it will be necessary." He was right.

 

[Agondonter]

It doesn't need to, but it would be nice.

Me for one. Religion stinks!

What good does it do in our modern world except for providing some folks a distraction from their ultimate deaths?

That's about the only good I see religion doing these days. For people who can't deal with the idea that they are finite and will one day die, religion provides them with a Land of Make-Believe where they will go and frolic around for eternity in bliss after they die.

Other than that...what good does religion do today? Don't say "charity" because the non-religious give just as much to charity as the religious. What else? Most of what I see is ugly...protesting gay people, bombing infidels, claiming non-believers will burn in hell, etc. What else good comes from religion?

So why won't religion go away? Is it possible you, like Luis, see the shell and are oblivious to the kernel inside?

 

[Acim]

IMO, the reason religions will never go away is because every consciously formed ideology or endeavor is already a religion or has potential for it. Just takes adherents to become partly about religion. Add in anything (at all) beyond individual bias, and the religion takes more shape. Toss in concepts by (so called) forerunners of the endeavor that are to be held with great reverence and voila, worship is discernible.

Atheism is a religion. Obviously, it would be a religion that claims zero belief in a god(s), but we already have those type of religions existing. The fact we have self identified religions that are atheistic, makes it then about 'types of atheists' some of which are presumed to be irreligious. Knowing that many atheists probably strongly disagree with my assertion of atheism as a religion, I'll allow them to raise whatever counterpoints they choose to potentially further dialogue whereby the connection, IMO, will be made stronger that it is religious. In fact, it would help my assertion immensely to have that dialogue, whereas no dialogue (of any sort) from atheists, would hinder that overarching assertion.

Scientific practice is arguably religious and science itself has potential as a theistic type religion. I'm sure many scientific minded people hope that potential is never reached, but in some ways it has already been reached, though not universally embraced. IMO, it would be very good if it is never fully embraced for as long as materialism is married to science (and idealism is -allegedly- divorced).

Certain practices of traditional/ancient religions are bound to go away within a maturing civilized society. I think of that as obvious, and not sure anyone disputes it.

It's the conceptual relation with things existing, thought to exist and a desire to organize a framework around that that gives potential to a religion. Once worship / reverence is added into the mix, I would say the potential has been realized of it being a religion.

 

[Demonslayer]

So why won't religion go away?

All good things in time.

The main answer is that indoctrination is a terribly powerful tool. When you hammer ideas irreversibly into a child in their developmental years, these ideas are incredibly difficult to shake.

A secondary answer is, until very recently the world has been pretty dark when it comes to technology and scientific advancement/knowledge. If you look around today it seems like we're very advanced as a species, but just 150 years ago we were reading by oil lamp, doctors were still using leeches as a medical treatment, and folks who went to see the "magician" at the county fair mostly thought it was real magic and not just slight of hand. (there are interesting stories of angry townsfolk attacking the magicians if they saw through the act, feeling they were being cheated because the person was not performing "real magic."

For the vast majority of human history, right up until around 1900, we had very few answers about the world we live in. There was a need for an explanation, say, for Down's Syndrome, so we called it "demonic possession." We needed explanation for most everything in our lives, and the imaginary world of Gods and Demons were the passed down tradition of how we explained these things.

It's no surprise that the very first generation to be born into our advanced modern understanding of many natural phenomenon is rapidly dumping traditional religion across the board. After centuries of America being 90%-95% Christian, in a single generation is has dropped to about 75% with "the nones" rapidly growing. It's my estimation that traditional, literal religion will continue to fade dramatically from the educated world over the next 100 years, and by that time people still praying and chanting to a literal deity will largely be seen as odd, superstitious folks.

There will be some sort of "religion" still, but my guess is it will be some watered down form of deism, or the idea of being "generally spiritual" and we won't have the robust belief in a literal Cosmic Overlord anymore, except in small pockets of extreme fundamentalists.

 

[Demonslayer]

Atheism is a religion.

*sigh* Won't you retire this old misnomer?

 

[Acim]

*sigh* Won't you retire this old misnomer?

I will. The week after atheists stop disputing god concepts (as part of their rituals).